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Old 07-04-2018, 04:55 AM
Location: New York Area
13,440 posts, read 5,231,259 times
Reputation: 10769


Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
All this is bs propaganda, oh look at the heroic US Army defeating the evil Nazis! This guy was just a guard, he was not part of the Nazi leadership, he just needed a job.
I'll agree this is a hard case. But the Holocaust could not have happened without the help of a lot of ordinary people "just following orders."

Old 07-04-2018, 06:09 AM
3,181 posts, read 1,636,481 times
Reputation: 15366
Those crying for leniency are ignorant about the Holocaust and what the Nazis really did. Start reading, my friends. Gassing and cremating Jews, Poles, homosexuals and anyone else not "pure" is only the nose tip of that monster.

For starters and for only $2.99 you can download a Kindle book called Five Chimneys by Olga Lengyel, a death camp survivor. Don't expect expert prose and perfect editing. She's raw. She stabs like a knife through the heart. Lengyel's words, her experience and the screams of justice from the dead will chill you to the core.

After you read the part about how the Nazis continued to murder thousands of children towards the end of the war (when they were running low on gas, fuel and bullets), come back in here and preach to us "leniency and forgiveness". If you do you have no soul and you haven't studied and read enough.

The best things that Nazi can do for himself is die in his sleep.
Old 07-04-2018, 06:20 AM
5,072 posts, read 608,462 times
Reputation: 13147
Originally Posted by NYJoe View Post
Gotta be a liberal, right?
Having a conscience is not a matter of being a liberal or being a conservative or being a whatever -- almost all people have consciences, no matter what their religion or politics are. I think that whenever people join any kind of hate group or political party, it is because their opinions and views were warped in some way for a myriad of possible reasons.
Old 07-04-2018, 06:33 AM
Location: Under Moon & Star
1,595 posts, read 565,294 times
Reputation: 8901
Originally Posted by NYJoe View Post
Gotta be a liberal, right?
Right, Joe.

The poster running interference for white nationalism by distancing skinheads from Hitler is a liberal. Sure...
Old 07-04-2018, 08:06 AM
Location: New Jersey
12,775 posts, read 7,389,107 times
Reputation: 13043
Originally Posted by NYJoe View Post
Gotta be a liberal, right?
Don't think so!

Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
Putin is glorious, Putin is great!
Old 07-04-2018, 08:36 AM
8,315 posts, read 8,596,327 times
Reputation: 25964
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I'll agree this is a hard case. But the Holocaust could not have happened without the help of a lot of ordinary people "just following orders."
For me, it was a very hard case as well. I ended up coming down on the side that Groenig should not have been sent to prison. I think a trial was useful in the sense that bringing the facts of the Holocaust to light is necessary in light of the reality that a small segment of the public still attempts to deny what happened.

I attended a lecture at my college in the mid-1980's that was given by the actor, Robert Clary. Clary is known by some of us oldsters as having played the role of the Frenchman Le Boeuf in the sit com "Hogan's Heroes" decades ago. A very odd, but funny comedy that dealt with the experience of American flyers locked up in POW camp. Clary was Jewish and as a very young man was sent from France during the War to a concentration camp. Clary survived the experience by getting extra rations for entertaining the Germans who held him in custody. Clary buried his experiences of the Holocaust for years and moved forward after the war marrying, having a family, and establishing a lucrative career as an actor and performer. In short, he simply tried to forget his past horrors. What caused Clary to reconsider was when he began to notice there were people publicly denying the Holocaust had ever occurred. As a result, he became active and began giving lectures about his experiences. Clary made special efforts to explain how it was possible to kill people on the mass scale that took place. I noticed his incredible patience, when he answered questions from people who seemed skeptical of the whole thing.

What makes me somewhat sympathetic to Oskar Groenig are several factors:

1. Groenig did not directly participate in the killing that went on. He was an accountant who kept track of the property of those who were inmates or murdered.

2. Groenig admitted becoming aware of what went on in the camp and requested a transfer to other duties. This was denied.

3. Groenig came forward in his later years when he--like Robert Clary--began hearing people deny the Holocaust.

It would have been much easier and safer for Groenig to simply do what thousands of Germans did. Shut up and never utter a word about their work during the war. I suspect even at this time, there are still German men alive who participated as Groenig did, in some way in the Holocaust. The difference is Groenig not only admitted it, he tried to use his knowledge to rebut those who would deny this event ever took place.

Rather than sending Groenig to prison, I think it would have been much better to have him record his experiences and have them shown to German school children. Perhaps, he was healthy enough to even attempt some live lectures.

What happened to Groenig simply tells those Germans who chose to remain silent that they "did the right thing". The truth is more important at this point than anything else is. The Groenig case should have been handled differently.

Last edited by markg91359; 07-04-2018 at 09:11 AM..
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