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Actually Auschwitz WAS a labor camp. It was it's immediate neighbor Birkenau that was the extermination camp. It was in the courtyard of Auschwitz where the selections took place, one side stayed in Auschwitz to work, the other was moved next door to Birkenau.
Many Germans needed jobs but would not work for the Reich. Knowing that men, women, and children were being exterminated, many Germans fled, hid, or found some other way to survive without participating in the attempted genocide.
Oftentimes Germans - those with a conscience - hid with Jews in the forests, basements, and attics of Germany and other occupied lands.
I don't know why anyone would try a 93-year-old man for atrocities that took place seventy-five years ago, when he would have been around eighteen - twenty-three years old. Whatever he did or did not do, he'll be taking up with God soon enough.
Take a look at the ongoing persecution of both Christians and Jews in several countries in the world right now, in 2015. That we can stop. That we should stop. Are we trying to? Of course not!
The term 'war criminal' is a misnomer; war is criminal.
Mahrie.
Germans openly with a conscience were already on a list held by the gestapho before the first shot was fired. Dachau was opened in 1933, and housed the Germans who first spoke out and then later only spoke in private but were betrayed. It was the first, opened to teach Germans why they should be loyal.
Despite the reputation even at the beginning, some Germans challenged the rules even if it cost them their lives. The choice to be a part of humanity over darkness is within each person.
One way everyone can act is to learn to see all other human beings with the same respect for their personal choices or circumstances of birth as they would expect for themselves. And sadly organized religion, especially the evangelical types, invites disrespect. Quit telling other people you have the 'only' truth. If they choose to worship something else, give their choice the same respect you'd want for yourself. Find your path and let them find yours. Leave your agenda out of politics. That would not end violence based around religion, since much of it is also cultural and with a lot of old battles to fight again. But it would put a huge dent in it.
And if you called all christans to come and defend the victums of persecution in some other culture, how many are going to say but they aren't like ME? How many are going to want to send their children to stand in the middle of a blood bath if when they go the survivors will just reorganize for round two?
Sadly, a central theme of human existance is only one of us can be right and if all of you are dead, then its me.
One more witness, in addition to the millions who have already spoken, is not going to change the mind of a Holocaust denier. Their minds are not processing based on logic, evidence, or facts.
And neither do they really deny that Holocaust happened, to themselves at least. "The Holocaust was a hoax" and "Hitler didn't finish the job" are their two most popular slogans. Even though they are mutually exclusive.
Elderly Germans are still proud ultranationalists, they will deny it... and they will deny it sternly because deep in thier heart they believe the Deutschland uber alles mantra even to the this day but they dont want to seem out of touch. Not all, but many. My landlord was in his 70s one day were were talking in german about food. He told me he did not eat kebaps ( i love them) before I knew a lighthearted convesation turned into a diatrible about jews and turks. He told me the turks are going to destroy deutschland just like the jews did in the 30s. Therefore, he could not in good conscience support thier businesses. (kebaps are very popular in germany and most kebap shops are owned by turks)
Europe is already starting to get froggy about muslims migrating in droves to european counties and changing thier way of life. The Charlie Hedbo incident and other high pfofile bombings are all fuling anti-muslim sentiment in Europe. I believe it will come to a boil and we will have a kinder? gentler version of the holocaust, only this time it will be muslims who are the target and the jews will not only do nothing to stop it they will actively support it. The world is going to be a scary unstable place in 20-30 years mark my words.
The Germans actively protect these holocaust guards because Germany secretly believes what they did back then was just part of the ebb and flow of life. They had just gotten out of the first world war where they were devestated and punsishe for 20 years, they were crapped on all throught the napoleonic wars. They were sick of the russians. Germans protect their own war criminals in the same way we protected the Admiral and seamen who shot down Iran Air 655. We said" Well they were iranians it was the "fog of war".. who cares? Germans are the same they say "it was 75 years ago, they were in the fog of war and who really gives a crap about jews?" errr we mean.. um he's a very frail old man now, he was in danger from the nazi party, and we can't find him anyway...yeah thats it.
The jews are starting to get a little over confident these days now that they have convince their big brother to fight thier fights. The poor us Holocaust stuff is wearing thin not just in america but europe as well. Operations in Gaza, the continued destruction of homes in the west bank, and now this silly American Freedom Defense Initative are really starting to make non-jews wonder if our unwavering support for israel is misguided, or at the very least people are starting to care less and less about the "plight" of the modern jewish people.
Personally, I don't care for muslims or jews or their religious zeal and thier stupid history.
Herr Groening knew what he was doing. He was in the schutzstaffel. He will be tried and convicted and die soon.
Not to be dismissive of the Nazis and Hitler and the holocaust, but I have one word for you: Stalin.
You want to talk truly evil? There's your word for today.
Hitler and the Nazis were amateurs.
Disagree, for the simple reason that Nazi ideology was a pure, open evil and anyone supporting it would have to willingly accept doing evil things. They openly called for extermination of entire peoples, attacking the neighbors and taking their lands, turning surviving Slavs into slaves, forced euthanasia of Germans with disabilities, etc. They turned mass murder into a wide scale industrial enterprise. One simply couldn't support the Nazis and not give up their humanity. A quote from Hitler:
"I am freeing men from the wearisome restrictions of the mind, from the dirty and degrading self-mortifications of a chimera called conscience and morality, and from the demands of a freedom and personal independence which a very few enjoy"
On the other hand, the Communists called for a Workers Paradise on Earth, Brotherly Love Between Peoples, The Great Future for Everybody, The End Of Oppression (I am using capital letters on purpose, as this was all very grand propaganda). They appealed to the best in people to make them do their dirty job. The Nazis appealed to the worst in people. A German soldier was being told that he must kill a Slavic or Jewish child because they were subhuman scum who took up space that Germany needed. A Soviet soldier was being told that he must kill a "capitalist enemy" to make the world a better place for everyone including the "capitalist enemy's" own children (as long as they grow up properly indoctrinated).
In a way, the Communism is like a Christian cult, the Nazism is like a Satanic one.
As to the number of people murdered by both regimes - Hitler was in power for 12 years, Lenin and Stalin were in power for 36 years, plus Russia has a long history of very bloody regimes regardless of ideology. Most of the deaths in Soviet Russia were from hunger / starvation / famine / diseases brought about by the civil war, revolution, and forced collectivization. This is not to say that Communists were not an evil regime, but in my mind they don't hold a candle to the Nazis.
Nazis also killed 6 million non-Jews in these and other camps as well. Pre-dates the actual Holocaust. I have wondered how many Jews died in the ghettos when the Nazis tried indirect attrition(disease and starvation) rather than outright killing.(shooting, CO2 poisoning, gas,etc)
It began very early when the newly installed German government laid plans for 'humainly' disposing of those not mentally developed. It was the way they tested the gases which later killed millions more. And then there was the means of providing for the 'purity' of Germans by sterilizing all women who had 'bad genes' which was evidenced by having a handicapped child, or having a 'condition' themselves. It didn't offically fly, but they kept the records. The 'impure' children were followed and most allowed to die later.
And the Germans who really wanted to save their nation spoke up. And were marked for removal, even if it wasn't immediately. They started with discrediting the writers and thinkers, and pushing them until they had reason to arrest them. Later all that wasn't necessary. Knowing this wouldn't be part of the 'new' German image he wished, when the Olympics were taking place, all the nazi banners and signs and rules were suspended. So Americans and others could go home thinking how good a job Herr Hitler was doing.
When it came to the time that those things weren't necessary, the believers believed and the sceptics were careful, but the SS knew who they were already.
These were the first victums and someone should have noticed and not just taken the pretty facade for the real reflection.
Elderly Germans are still proud ultranationalists, they will deny it... and they will deny it sternly because deep in thier heart they believe the Deutschland uber alles mantra even to the this day but they dont want to seem out of touch. Not all, but many. My landlord was in his 70s one day were were talking in german about food. He told me he did not eat kebaps ( i love them) before I knew a lighthearted convesation turned into a diatrible about jews and turks. He told me the turks are going to destroy deutschland just like the jews did in the 30s. Therefore, he could not in good conscience support thier businesses. (kebaps are very popular in germany and most kebap shops are owned by turks)
Europe is already starting to get froggy about muslims migrating in droves to european counties and changing thier way of life. The Charlie Hedbo incident and other high pfofile bombings are all fuling anti-muslim sentiment in Europe. I believe it will come to a boil and we will have a kinder? gentler version of the holocaust, only this time it will be muslims who are the target and the jews will not only do nothing to stop it they will actively support it. The world is going to be a scary unstable place in 20-30 years mark my words.
The Germans actively protect these holocaust guards because Germany secretly believes what they did back then was just part of the ebb and flow of life. They had just gotten out of the first world war where they were devestated and punsishe for 20 years, they were crapped on all throught the napoleonic wars. They were sick of the russians. Germans protect their own war criminals in the same way we protected the Admiral and seamen who shot down Iran Air 655. We said" Well they were iranians it was the "fog of war".. who cares? Germans are the same they say "it was 75 years ago, they were in the fog of war and who really gives a crap about jews?" errr we mean.. um he's a very frail old man now, he was in danger from the nazi party, and we can't find him anyway...yeah thats it.
The jews are starting to get a little over confident these days now that they have convince their big brother to fight thier fights. The poor us Holocaust stuff is wearing thin not just in america but europe as well. Operations in Gaza, the continued destruction of homes in the west bank, and now this silly American Freedom Defense Initative are really starting to make non-jews wonder if our unwavering support for israel is misguided, or at the very least people are starting to care less and less about the "plight" of the modern jewish people.
Personally, I don't care for muslims or jews or their religious zeal and thier stupid history.
Herr Groening knew what he was doing. He was in the schutzstaffel. He will be tried and convicted and die soon.
Andy, it's not going to tke 'twenty or thirty years.' If we make it through this year, I'll be surprised.
"First the Saturday people (Jews)
And then the Sunday people (Christians.)"
This is the Muslim mission now and they will not be deterred.
And Andy, we'll all be tried and convicted and die soon.
"As you judge, so will you be judged." Jesus Christ.
I can't wrap my head around this "holocaust denial" bit. I mean...how could anyone take that seriously? 6million people , rounded up and murdered, in dozens of ways. Mass graves, ovens plugged with human remains, and this was all ....faked? Spare me. And the Earth is really flat and gravity is just a phsycological force. The SS and Gestapo were just loyal soldiers, doing their duty in war and Hitler was misunderstood. Gimme a break! Who comes up with this septic spew?
Skinheads, neo Nazis, and a host of others, claiming to be AMERICAN patriots, and spitting on the graves of our war dead. Flying Nazi flags alongside the Stars and Stripes and yelling heil Hitler. Yep...pretty convincing bunch. And here things are, STILL trying SS guards in 2015. Wow...
Six million Jews.... six million other 'undesirables' -- gays, disabled, Gypsies, troublemakers.....
12 million people killed by Hitler and his ilk.
Last edited by Tallysmom; 04-24-2015 at 07:45 PM..
I can't wrap my head around this "holocaust denial" bit. I mean...how could anyone take that seriously? 6million people , rounded up and murdered, in dozens of ways. Mass graves, ovens plugged with human remains, and this was all ....faked? Spare me. And the Earth is really flat and gravity is just a phsycological force. The SS and Gestapo were just loyal soldiers, doing their duty in war and Hitler was misunderstood. Gimme a break! Who comes up with this septic spew?
Skinheads, neo Nazis, and a host of others, claiming to be AMERICAN patriots, and spitting on the graves of our war dead. Flying Nazi flags alongside the Stars and Stripes and yelling heil Hitler. Yep...pretty convincing bunch. And here things are, STILL trying SS guards in 2015. Wow...
I could not agree more. I am not Jewish, but spent the first five years of my live in a predominantly Jewish area in an outer borough of NYC.
I personally met people who were tattooed, scarred, and maimed by the Nazis.
While visiting my mother in law about ten years ago, I met another. Strangely, a very cheerful man. He was missing an eye because of a whipping.
The exact toll of the Holocaust is more like 11,000. It really does not matter who was killed. Except that Jews, unlike others, were utterly nonredeemable, in the eyes of the Nazis, and were treated the worst.
As far as this sadistic geezer goes? Let him rot in jail for the rest of his life.
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The SS and Gestapo were just loyal soldiers, doing their duty in war and Hitler was misunderstood. Gimme a break! Who comes up with this septic spew? 