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Old 04-24-2015, 06:57 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 4,807,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
As a 200+ lb. man I guarantee you I can pin a 100 lb. drunk woman to the ground in seconds (a measured response) without using all my muscled strength (an excessive response).
Yeah, I don't think so. At all of 5'0" 105 lbs I tossed plenty of 200+ lb guys (of course, I also benched a little over 300 at the time and eventually ended up on a development squad for greco).
Now, I'm a middle aged 170lb tub of lard now, but still only 5'0" (actually shorter now), but I am still very confident that very few people could pin me to the ground in seconds.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:02 AM
 
26,291 posts, read 18,931,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
Really? This is your question?

As a 200+ lb. man I guarantee you I can pin a 100 lb. drunk woman to the ground in seconds (a measured response) without using all my muscled strength (an excessive response).

I and almost any man who works out could easily lift that woman in the air and slam her as if it were a WWE beat down. But because we have a brain, a conscience, and a soul would not do it.

The news is full of warnings about sports injuries - especially concussions and anyone with a brain is aware that you take care not to injure a persons head. That does not include slamming one into the ground.
especially one that can barely stand up, much less put up much of a fight.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,032 posts, read 7,112,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Except one shouldn't do that in a street fight.

Generally, going to the ground with your opposer IS NOT a very good idea.



You may be tactically wrong.

Keep in mind that one can never be absolutely sure of the number of opponents in a situation.

Take it from his standpoint for a moment. Are you going to spend as much time as she needs to become compliant with your back turned to the world, especially a world that doesn't like police (and won't fund to put two cops in cars)?

Now, such considerations, about not knowing how many there are, has been part of my training. Real quick (have to do other things): scenario of a shoot out on a street. Two, three crooks running. One goes down in the middle of the street, others are hiding somewhere up the street. "You" start your sweep ..... and get shot in the back by the apparently dead man in the middle of the street.

For anything else from the scenario, like I said, you have to be careful about fixation on one person, especially when you are exposed.
Oh good god....are you serious here or is this another pathetic excuse to attempt to cover for this coward?
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,032 posts, read 7,112,453 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
Yeah, I don't think so. At all of 5'0" 105 lbs I tossed plenty of 200+ lb guys (of course, I also benched a little over 300 at the time and eventually ended up on a development squad for greco).
Now, I'm a middle aged 170lb tub of lard now, but still only 5'0" (actually shorter now), but I am still very confident that very few people could pin me to the ground in seconds.

Did the woman in that video appear to be capable of benching 3 bills?
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,715,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
I could never see myself smashing a woman's face into the concrete. And while wearing the badge??!!!




Berdee are you a man??


Do any of the other men feel differently?
I do know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of that impact.(as she was) During training I was nearly knocked out by the force of my head striking the pavement. Too much exuberance on the part of my training partner. It appears to be as Tamara indicated above a manuever to incapacitate the person by shock into submission. But the speed of the manuever, I refer to the landing velocity, is difficult to control unless there is considerable disparity in strength to weight.

If there is no threat to one's life then sufficient force is used to bring the task to completion. One does not use excessive force which can lead to injury. But this may have been inadverent injury from the manuever.

Have to admit the manuever was performed quite smoothly in the video.

Last edited by Felix C; 04-24-2015 at 07:38 AM..
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:29 AM
 
1,288 posts, read 1,408,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma View Post
So then what you're saying is that you agree that level of force wasn't warranted in that situation.
No I am ambivalent to the level of force used in the scenario. Meaning I wouldn't have used that amount of force but I don't mind that he did. Why you ask? Because neither me or you have any idea what happened PRIOR to the shooting of the video. It could have been that:

1. The officer was talking down to her, aggressive and gave her very little chance to comply with orders before slamming her to the floor. In that case he used excessive force. He would still be legally cleared but he would be wrong.

Or

2. The lady could have been rude, uncooperative and cursing at the officer for 5 minutes before the video was shot. So after 5 minutes he decided to take her to the ground using a legal technique. And in this case the officer would be morally and legally justified.

The point is we don't know what happened and all we have is a video to go by. Based on the video he did nothing illegal or warranting of any departmental discipline. You have to understand that officers are given latitude on how to handle a situation because their work environment is fluid and changing. There are no "one size fits all" solution to every scenario an officer faces. Just because I may choose to talk to her longer doesn't mean the officer in the video is REQUIRED to do the same.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:36 AM
 
26,291 posts, read 18,931,153 times
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i really don't see how this is a justifiable use of force..

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Old 04-24-2015, 07:40 AM
 
4,424 posts, read 5,438,001 times
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Okay so are we supposed to treat the female and male population as equals or are we supposed to treat the female population as the weaker sex?

Pick one and stick with it, people.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Derby, CT
3,584 posts, read 2,491,592 times
Reputation: 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
No I am ambivalent to the level of force used in the scenario. Meaning I wouldn't have used that amount of force but I don't mind that he did. Why you ask? Because neither me or you have any idea what happened PRIOR to the shooting of the video. It could have been that:

1. The officer was talking down to her, aggressive and gave her very little chance to comply with orders before slamming her to the floor. In that case he used excessive force. He would still be legally cleared but he would be wrong.

Or

2. The lady could have been rude, uncooperative and cursing at the officer for 5 minutes before the video was shot. So after 5 minutes he decided to take her to the ground using a legal technique. And in this case the officer would be morally and legally justified.

The point is we don't know what happened and all we have is a video to go by. Based on the video he did nothing illegal or warranting of any departmental discipline. You have to understand that officers are given latitude on how to handle a situation because their work environment is fluid and changing. There are no "one size fits all" solution to every scenario an officer faces. Just because I may choose to talk to her longer doesn't mean the officer in the video is REQUIRED to do the same.
In case you missed the dash cam footage

Video shows DWI suspect knocked unconscious during arrest
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: SC
8,777 posts, read 5,620,116 times
Reputation: 12772
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
...
2. The lady could have been rude, uncooperative and cursing at the officer for 5 minutes before the video was shot. So after 5 minutes he decided to take her to the ground using a legal technique. And in this case the officer would be morally and legally justified.
...
What happened before has no bearing. It does not matter if this woman called the cop or his mother any number of names. It is the cop's duty to arrest without excessive force and having been sworn at does not make this any more or less excessive. The cop is required to control himself.
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