U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:04 PM
 
8,306 posts, read 8,583,412 times
Reputation: 25929

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
This is so arrogant. For many, their religious views don't subscribe 100% with one religious authority or another. Many people are religious without being a part of organized religion. Just because the pope is willing to accept vaccines that have been made with cells derived via aborted fetal cells, does not mean that all Christians or even people with their own religious views will agree with his interpretation. Other people's religious views are not for you or the state or the school district to decide. Religion is personal for many.

Did you know that the Rubella vaccine prevents many fetuses from miscarrying during pregnancy? It also prevents hordes of birth defects ranging from heart problems to nervous system disorders. This article estimates that the vaccine saves thousands of them. Vaccination probably reduces the number of miscarriages in the USA by 5,000 per year. The source for this statement is former Catholic Pope Benedict XVI. Its a big reason the Catholic Church is not opposed to the the use of the MMR vaccine despite the fact that it has a slim connection to aborted fetal cells.


What Aborted Fetuses Have to Do With Vaccines - ABC News

Your statement about religious views is interesting. I think problem here is that people can't clearly understand the difference between a religious exemption from vaccination and a personal exemption. If a state grants a religious exemption, it is not the province of government to say that one form of belief is better than another form. However, it is a completely legitimate form of inquiry to inquire as to whether the beliefs are bonafide or not. Evidence that might suggest the beliefs are bonafide would be proof that one was a longstanding member of a church like the Christian Scientists. Actually, membership in any organized religious body that holds religious services would be acceptable proof, so long as that church professed some kind of opposition to medicines or vaccines. On the other hand, if one couldn't show membership in any such denomination it raises questions as to whether the applicant is entitled to the exemption.

This may seem a non-legitimate inquiry to you. However, it is used by the IRS and other government agencies for tax and regulatory purposes. My favorite one was when the IRS had to determine whether Scientology was a church or not. Think about it. If such inquiries were not made by government agencies, millions of people would try to establish a "church" or "religion" simply to avoid paying taxes. Occasionally, legal disputes occur between different groups that claim entitlement to a church and its property. These are cases where courts have to decide questions about whether religious beliefs are bonafide or not.

A small minority does oppose vaccination, but it has nothing to do with religion. These people are entitled to exemption in a state that maintains a "personal exemption". If the state has no personal exemption this group is not entitled to be exempt from vaccination. Those who would qualify for a personal exemption are not entitled to convert that into a religious exemption, unless their reasoning is truly founded on religious beliefs.

Last edited by markg91359; 06-06-2015 at 09:12 PM..

 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,523,456 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Did you know that the Rubella vaccine prevents many fetuses from miscarrying during pregnancy? It also prevents hordes of birth defects ranging from heart problems to nervous system disorders. This article estimates that the vaccine saves thousands of them. Its a big reason the Catholic Church is not opposed to the the use of the MMR vaccine despite the fact that it has a slim connection to aborted fetal cells.


What Aborted Fetuses Have to Do With Vaccines - ABC News

Your statement about religious views is interesting. I think problem here is that people can't clearly understand the difference between a religious exemption from vaccination and a personal exemption. If a state grants a religious exemption, it is not the province of government to say that one form of belief is better than another form. However, it is a completely legitimate form of inquiry to inquire as to whether the beliefs are bonafide or not. Evidence that might suggest the beliefs are bonafide would be proof that one was a longstanding member of a church like the Christian Scientists. Actually, membership in any organized religious body that holds religious services would be acceptable proof, so long as that church professed some kind of opposition to medicines or vaccines. On the other hand, if one couldn't show membership in any such denomination it raises questions as to whether the applicant is entitled to the exemption.

This may seem a non-legitimate inquiry to you. However, it is used by the IRS and other government agencies for tax and regulatory purposes. My favorite one was when the IRS had to determine whether Scientology was a church or not. Occasionally, legal disputes occur between different groups that claim entitlement to a church and its property. These are cases where courts have to decide questions about whether religious beliefs are bonafide or not.

A small minority does oppose vaccination, but it has nothing to do with religion. These people are entitled to exemption in a state that maintains a "personal exemption". If the state has no personal exemption this group is not entitled to be exempt from vaccination. Those who would qualify for a personal exemption are not entitled to convert that into a religious exemption, unless their reasoning is truly founded on religious beliefs.
I cant speak for missterri, but I can speak for myself. If I believe that God doesnt want me to take vaccines, the fetuses used are insignificant.

The Catholic church wrestled with the question, but didnt determine it was 'okay' to use aborted fetuses. They determined it was better to err on the side of the common good, so parishoners are free to vaccinate if they wish to. I havent seen a Papal Bull demanding that they do.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26461
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I've had the flu, chicken pox and rotavirus and I would say that I think some of the "pro-vaxx for everyone" posters have deeply overblown these illnesses in attempt to scare people into getting vaccinated for them.
My father was in an automobile crash that did not kill him. The seat belt he was wearing and the air bags in his truck had a lot to do with that. The truck was totaled.

A sixteen year old girl recently rolled her truck on a road near my home. Thanks to her seat belt, she walked away with a few bruises.

Thousands of people die in automobile accidents every year. Most fatalities are not belted. Do you have any doubt seat belts save lives? I don't, just as I have no doubt that vaccines do.

You did not die from flu, chickenpox, or rotavirus, but deaths do happen. With the availability of safe, effective vaccines, the majority of those deaths are preventable and unnecessary.

Your statement is a perfect example of why people need to be told the risks of vaccine preventable diseases. The risks are real, not "overblown". What is "overblown" is allegations that vaccines cause injuries that they do not, including autism.

If vaccination rates continue to fall, the diseases they prevent will come back with a vengeance.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:14 PM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
My father was in an automobile crash that did not kill him. The seat belt he was wearing and the air bags in his truck had a lot to do with that. The truck was totaled.

A sixteen year old girl recently rolled her truck on a road near my home. Thanks to her seat belt, she walked away with a few bruises.

Thousands of people die in automobile accidents every year. Most fatalities are not belted. Do you have any doubt seat belts save lives? I don't, just as I have no doubt that vaccines do.

You did not die from flu, chickenpox, or rotavirus, but deaths do happen. With the availability of safe, effective vaccines, the majority of those deaths are preventable and unnecessary.

Your statement is a perfect example of why people need to be told the risks of vaccine preventable diseases. The risks are real, not "overblown". What is "overblown" is allegations that vaccines cause injuries that they do not, including autism.

If vaccination rates continue to fall, the diseases they prevent will come back with a vengeance.
This is sounding a lot like an advertisement in favor of vaccines. If you want to live in fear of these illnesses, feel free. I will not. You said those who were not afraid probably had never seen them. I was just letting you know that I experienced those three first hand and I have zero fear of them.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26461
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
I cant speak for missterri, but I can speak for myself. If I believe that God doesnt want me to take vaccines, the fetuses used are insignificant.

The Catholic church wrestled with the question, but didnt determine it was 'okay' to use aborted fetuses. They determined it was better to err on the side of the common good, so parishoners are free to vaccinate if they wish to. I havent seen a Papal Bull demanding that they do.
But it is not against the teaching of the Catholic Church to vaccinate.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:18 PM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
But it is not against the teaching of the Catholic Church to vaccinate.

Not all people who are religious are a part of an organized religion and their interpretation of the bible or whatever other religious doctrine may differ from the "leader of the catholic church".
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26461
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
This is sounding a lot like an advertisement in favor of vaccines. If you want to live in fear of these illnesses, feel free. I will not. You said those who were not afraid probably had never seen them. I was just letting you know that I experienced those three first hand and I have zero fear of them.
You have not died from flu. Each year thousands of people, including well nourished, healthy people die from flu. That includes children and pregnant women.

Before the chickenpox vaccine, people died from chickenpox.

Before the rotavirus vaccine, babies (mostly) died from rotavirus.

With the vaccines for those, deaths decreased precipitously, and many fewer people get sick.

You are not the only person in the world. Many, many people do not have the same experience you did with those diseases.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:23 PM
 
8,306 posts, read 8,583,412 times
Reputation: 25929
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Not all people who are religious are a part of an organized religion and their interpretation of the bible or whatever other religious doctrine may differ from the "leader of the catholic church".
True, but its perfectly legitimate to inquire as to the source and reasons for those beliefs. The request for a religious exemption can be denied if the authority charged with granting such exemptions determines the beliefs are not religious in nature, but simply a personal desire to avoid vaccination. *

*In states that have religious, but not personal exemptions from vaccination.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,523,456 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
But it is not against the teaching of the Catholic Church to vaccinate.
Abortion is against the teachings of the Catholic Church. Now we are going in circles.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 09:29 PM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You have not died from flu. Each year thousands of people, including well nourished, healthy people die from flu. That includes children and pregnant women.

Before the chickenpox vaccine, people died from chickenpox.

Before the rotavirus vaccine, babies (mostly) died from rotavirus.

With the vaccines for those, deaths decreased precipitously, and many fewer people get sick.

You are not the only person in the world. Many, many people do not have the same experience you did with those diseases.
Why are you trying so hard to convince me to be fearful? I said that I am not afraid and I'm not. I've known many others who have had these illnesses besides myself. Death is very rare. Like I said, if you want to live in fear, you can but it's weird how hard you are trying to convince me to also live in fear.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top