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You know, I'm confused! When we were discussing religious vaccine exemptions, and I showed how there are many websites to help Florida parents to obtain one, I was told I didn't understand that the discussion was about California! By the same token, I don't understand what gun ownership in Arizona has to do with immunizations in California. Maybe someone can explain this to me.
If you are referring to me I'll explain it again. It's a bit out of context on its own, it was within the context of my previous post.
I stated my concerns regarding states that have all exemptions still intact being attractive options for those who have been victims of another states mandate. As an example I used Arizona and how gun owners are attracted to it because they have very few gun laws compared to other states, so in turn Arizona has a disproportionate amount of gun owners now.
Some states capitalize on these issues like Arizona has done to draw people to their states. Since vaccination laws are based on state rather than federal.
I'm concerned we will get a disproportionate amounts of unvaccinated in some states with mandates. Which will makes outbreaks of disease worse, not better.
Better to have them dispersed within the vaccinated communities. Transmission would be less likely.
But I have my suspicion that the pro vax community aren't as concerned about transmission threats as they are winning a war against the anti vax community because that's what happens when people are against each other. They lose sight of the real goal, which is I'm assuming to see less outbreaks of disease.
The CDC is just trying to keep up vaccine rates so the drug companies will still be able and willing to produce them, and that is a legitimate fear in a for profit healthcare system.
Last edited by PoppySead; 06-08-2015 at 10:28 AM..
I work in "the industry" (yeah, baby-killer and all that entails) and there were no plans to make vaccine mandatory in 2009-10. I don't watch these lame you-tube videos. Is that a visiting nurse bringing flu shots to the homebound? I've done that; no mandate needed.
If you are referring to me I'll explain it again. It's a bit out of context on its own, it was within the context of my precious post.
I stated my concerns regarding states that have all exemptions still intact being attractive options for those who have been victims of another states mandate. As an example I used Arizona and how gun owners are attracted to it because they have very few gun laws compared to other states, so in turn Arizona has a disproportionate amount of gun owners now.
Some states capitalize on these issues like Arizona has done to draw people to their states. Since vaccination laws are based on state rather than federal.
I'm concerned we will get a disproportionate amounts of unvaccinated in some states with mandates. Which will makes outbreaks of disease worse, not better.
Better to have them dispersed within the vaccinated communities. Transmission would be less likely.
But I have my suspicion that the pro vax community aren't as concerned about transmission threats as they are winning a war against the anti vax community because that's what happens when people are against each other. They lose sight of the real goal, which is I'm assuming to see less outbreaks of disease.
The CDC is just trying to keep up vaccine rates so the drug companies will still be able and willing to produce them, and that is a legitimate fear in a for profit healthcare system.
So, it's OK for an anti-vaxer to talk about gun control in Arizona when discussing vaccine mandates in California. It's not OK for a pro-vaxer (unashamedly so) to show how easy it is to get a religious exemption to vaccines in Florida (as an example of what could happen if California keeps religious exemptions) when discussing vaccine mandates in California. I see now.
I think suzy_q2010 disproved your concerns. Mississippi has the highest school immunization rates in the country, with NO exemptions other than medical. West Virginia, with a similar law, is near the top as well. In point of fact, there is plenty of research to show that where exemptions are easier to get, immunization rates are lower. In States with Looser Immunization Laws, Lower Rates NOVA | What Drives Vaccination Rates? "States with tougher rules have lower exemption rates and vice versa. And tightening existing rules appears to make a difference: When Washington State toughened its personal-belief exemption criteria to require a clinician's signature on the exemption form, exemption rates dropped 25% between 2009 and 2011."
The research does not support your concerns. You can relax.
I find it offensive to impugn the motives of the pro-vaxers. Concern about transmission is at the heart of everything. This "Big Pharma" conspiracy talk is ridiculous, in the true sense of the word, meaning to be ridiculed.
The for-profit health care system has nothing to do with this. The same manufacturers make vaccines for countries with UHC systems.
I work in "the industry" (yeah, baby-killer and all that entails) and there were no plans to make vaccine mandatory in 2009-10. I don't watch these lame you-tube videos. Is that a visiting nurse bringing flu shots to the homebound? I've done that; no mandate needed.
Public School District targeting unvaccinated high school kids in their homes. School District Staff and Nurse. I worked in a Public School where there was a Measles outbreak about 5 years ago. They did not close the school, let alone send nurses to students homes to vaccinate them. All the school did was send letters home to the students (not naming names) that there was an outbreak and IF they needed boosters to get them. School did not DEMAND vaccinations of students, or staff. I worked with an unvaccinated child then. He was not quarantined at home, and none of the other PARENTS had that right to know he was unvaccinated. Sending these kids home would have also meant they could have been identified. HIPPA. BTW, he did not have or catch measles.
Before I was employed to work with this boy, I was not only interviewed by the school district, but by his parents as well, for both his special needs AND my feelings on his vaccination status. His parents and I were in total agreement, including on the latter.
In the 3 years I worked 1:1 with him, he was never out sick, including for that measles outbreak, and that 2009 Flu Pandemic, when all the other kids around him very sneezing, coughing, etc. He was a very sweet, HEALTHY little boy. His (wealthy) parents decided to home school him with private tutors. lol There goes one unvaccinated child not being tracked by public school.
Drug companies need some kind of incentive, they are a business. It would be more hazardous to risk losings production of vaccines, and it's better for doctors to encourage more volume than to raise the prices of vaccines more again. So development of programs to encourage volume is understandable, like I stated previously. Non profit systems have a cap so making money off those systems is more difficult than it is in the U.S.
This is all just business, no company can afford to make vaccines out of the goodness flowing from their heart. They still need to make a profit. I don't see the problem. People would understand this if you were transparent about it. You don't have to keep stating they make no money, they lose money, etc. That kind of thing just spreads suspicion, imo.
I'm left to assume you take what I say out of context to have an argument but I already stated I don't feel like it. I'll tell you again you won't get that from me. I was asked my objection to mandates, I gave it to them. You can give your own reasons why you want them but arguing my opinion isn't a reason for you.
Last edited by PoppySead; 06-08-2015 at 10:32 AM..
The pope is a man. He is not God and he does not represent everyone's religious beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Considering the fact that I was raised Catholic, I would say that I do understand but what the Pope says in regard to vaccination does not fall into the same realm as your links. The Pope aside there are many organized religions, Christian and otherwise and there are also many people who are religious without being a part of an organized religions. How can anyone say that their interpretation of the Bible or other religious doctrine is not valid or acceptable? It's a sticky situation. I think that there will be a lot of backlash in CA over the elimination of religious exemptions. People will fight this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52
I agree. Its OK, if people have no personal reason not to want to. Just because the Pope said its okay doesnt mean that followers wont still find the fact aborted fetuses are used as off-putting, and even against their beliefs. It doesnt matter that cells are watered down - its still against their beliefs.
Take Lent as an example. New Catholics are not forced to give up meat for Lent anymore. If you are a vegetarian, giving up meat represents no sacrifice. That doesnt mean that anyone made any changes in regard to how they had always practiced Lent. It just put things into perspective for those that wanted a meaningful sacrifice.
All of these I agree with 100%. You can't argue belief. The Lord and everyone else knows I've tried. Lol
Won't work, people will do what they feel is right.
It's such a small minority I don't feel I need to worry about it, let them be in peace. The majority of them already home school anyway and they just fear mandatory vaccines will invade homeschool.
12 years of Catholic school. Pope is only considered "infallible" on matters related to religion. So if he comes out and says that he believes in say climate change or anything of a scientific (like vaccinations) nature that is up to the faithful to believe, or not. The Catholic religion is basically neutral when it comes to vaccinations. Up to the individual believer. Don't want to get into religion here, but this is a matter of individual conscience for believers.
Public School District targeting unvaccinated high school kids in their homes. School District Staff and Nurse. I worked in a Public School where there was a Measles outbreak about 5 years ago. They did not close the school, let alone send nurses to students homes to vaccinate them. All the school did was send letters home to the students (not naming names) that there was an outbreak and IF they needed boosters to get them. School did not DEMAND vaccinations of students, or staff. I worked with an unvaccinated child then. He was not quarantined at home, and none of the other PARENTS had that right to know he was unvaccinated. Sending these kids home would have also meant they could have been identified. HIPPA. BTW, he did not have or catch measles.
Before I was employed to work with this boy, I was not only interviewed by the school district, but by his parents as well, for both his special needs AND my feelings on his vaccination status. His parents and I were in total agreement, including on the latter.
In the 3 years I worked 1:1 with him, he was never out sick, including for that measles outbreak, and that 2009 Flu Pandemic, when all the other kids around him very sneezing, coughing, etc. He was a very sweet, HEALTHY little boy. His (wealthy) parents decided to home school him with private tutors. lol There goes one unvaccinated child not being tracked by public school.
Hopefully they stay out of home school. Only time will tell.
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