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Old 06-09-2015, 03:17 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 795,575 times
Reputation: 2377

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Your kid is in school right now with Hep B infected kids, HIV+ kids, kids with lice, kids with the flu, kids with herpes... You want to ban them too or just the (healthy until diseased) unvaccinated ones?
I want to ban the ones that could prevent spreading illness and don't. (That would include the kids with the flu and lice since they're highly contagious and treatable).

 
Old 06-09-2015, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,675,562 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
I want to ban the ones that could prevent spreading illness and don't. (That would include the kids with the flu and lice since they're highly contagious and treatable).
Figures....
 
Old 06-09-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
763 posts, read 637,838 times
Reputation: 1209
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Your kids would be (and were) in school right now with Hep B infected kids, HIV+ kids, kids with lice, kids with the flu, kids with herpes... You want to ban them too or just the (healthy until diseased) unvaccinated ones?
False equivalence.

Out of the more dangerous diseases that you selected, none can be transmitted as easily as measles. For the remaining ones that can be transmitted easily, none are as dangerous as measles.

This also helps demonstrate that the required childhood vaccines were carefully selected over time and not just assembled on somebody's whim.
 
Old 06-09-2015, 03:48 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 795,575 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Figures....
Thanks, and yes it does figure!

Once kids are no longer contagious, back to school they go, but they definitely should be "banned" from attending if they're going to infect others.

But as with unvaccinated kids, if the risk to others is high, they shouldn't be allowed to be there.
 
Old 06-09-2015, 03:54 PM
 
9,595 posts, read 5,810,036 times
Reputation: 9693
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Thanks, and yes it does figure!

Once kids are no longer contagious, back to school they go, but they definitely should be "banned" from attending if they're going to infect others.

But as with unvaccinated kids, if the risk to others is high, they shouldn't be allowed to be there.
How long do most parents wait to send a kid back to school after they had norovirus, for example? 24 hours after they stop vomiting seems pretty normal. The problem is that they are still contagious at that point and will remain contagious for awhile. A lot of parents have no clue or care about how long their child is contagious and a lot of contagious kids are sent back to school, symptoms or not.
 
Old 06-09-2015, 03:56 PM
 
9,595 posts, read 5,810,036 times
Reputation: 9693
I thought that this was interesting and speaks to Poppy's point about how sometimes tactics used to push people into vaccinating backfire.

Effective Messages in Vaccine Promotion: A Randomized Trial

Quote:
Current public health communications about vaccines may not be effective. For some parents, they may actually increase misperceptions or reduce vaccination intention. Attempts to increase concerns about communicable diseases or correct false claims about vaccines may be especially likely to be counterproductive.
 
Old 06-09-2015, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,438 posts, read 28,297,785 times
Reputation: 29036
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The CDC has changed their stance..they recommend Tdap every 10 years now because pertussis vaccine is not lifelong as they thought.

From the CDC site:

"..get Tdap instead of their next regular tetanus booster.."
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You are not keeping up with the CDC.

It's now Tdap and Td will be phased out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I did if you go back a post or two. A link to the CDC site and the phrase where they said replace Td with Tdap.

Here's my original post which I referred to in subsequents posts:



And here is the phrase from the CDC site:

Today there is a booster for preteens, teens and adults that contains protection against tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis (Tdap).

The easiest thing for adults to do is to get Tdap instead of their next regular tetanus booster-that Td shot that they were supposed to get every 10 years. The dose of Tdap can be given earlier than the 10-year mark, so it is a good idea for adults to talk to a healthcare provider about what is best for their specific situation.
Sorry, but you are misreading the link, Tex. If you have never had a Tdap, the next time you are due for a tetanus + diphtheria booster, you should get the Tdap, which adds the pertussis vaccine. After you have that one dose of the Tdap, every ten years you get the Td, which does not have the pertussis in it. You only need more than one Tdap if you are a pregnant woman, who should get it with each pregnancy.

Pertussis (Whooping Cough) | Vaccines.gov

"Tdap is a tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis vaccine given to preteens, teens, and adults as a one-time shot, or after exposure to tetanus under some circumstances. This is in place of one of the Td shots you would get every ten years. Tdap is especially important for those in close contact with infants."

That means that if you have never had a Tdap, you can get one when you update your school shots. It does not matter when you had your last tetanus + diphtheria booster: Td. Then, every ten years from now, you just need the Td.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Considering we discussed this case as it unfolded, I am not surprised to see you buying into how it was spun and accepting without proof that there was nothing to Thompson's claims. I remember the conversation well. It was a cover up and watching it unfold has made people like me way less trusting of the CDC (who was complicit in the cover up) as well as some of the "science" supporting vaccinations.
You buy the conspiracy theory, yet you called the mom with seven kids with whooping cough stupid for falling for all the stereotypes (your words) about the evils of vaccines.

The guy who "exposed" the "conspiracy" tried to re-evaluate the data from the study and failed miserably because he had no idea what he was doing. He did not understand the methodology of different kinds of medical studies and had no idea how to apply statistics to them.

The study was re-evaluated by independent researchers who confirmed the conclusions of the original authors. There was nothing to Thompson's claims.

Thompson is the one who is wrong, which is why we have not heard a peep out of him in months.

Quote:
Dr. Offit also profits from the vaccines that he promotes. It's a huge conflict of interest.

Dr Paul Offit makes it biased. You know that already though.

Good for him. He failed to do his reputation or his credibility any favors when he chose to profit from the same vaccines that he promotes.

You are really big on credentials and attacking the source. It's funny how quickly the vaccine pushers turned on Thompson when he blew the whistle. People on your side also love to attack Jefferson who is very qualified to talk about vaccines because of his honesty regarding their limitations.

Except for sometimes it does. Never have I said that all vaccine research is corrupt. Your claim otherwise makes you seem overly defensive and paranoid.
Quote:
If you have no desire to change my view, only try to force it down my throat then why do you even bother talking to me. You can put me in ignore. I never said I knew more then Offit, just that he is a biased source
I know I will not change your personal opinion. That's fine. I can challenge the misinformation that you present and will continue to do so.

You do not even understand the concept of conflict of interest. Receiving a grant from a drug company does not create a conflict as long as the source of the funding is disclosed and the company has no control over the study. It cannot have access to the data or influence the contents of the study or have any say in when or whether the study is published, even if the study results are not favorable to the drug. Wakefield had a gigantic conflict of interest. He did not disclose that he had received money from a lawyer to prove a link between measles vaccine and autism. He did not reveal that he was working on his own measles vaccine. He had huge conflicts of interest.

There was no conflict of interest in Dr. Offit making money from something he helped to develop. Just because he did that does not mean that what he says about vaccines is untrue. He is completely transparent about his relationship to the rotavirus vaccine. He also knows more about it than anyone else. It would be stupid not to listen to what he says about it. By the way, he abstained from the vote by the ACIP on the rotavirus vaccine.

Debunking myths about Dr. Paul Offit

Dr.Offit sold his share of the vaccine patent. Yes, he made a bundle. But he no longer has a financial interest in RotaTeq.

Is Paul Offit MD Continuing to Derive Revenue from The Vaccine He Developed? - I Speak of Dreams

"The RotaTeq patent was sold by The Children's Hospital Foundation effective October 1, 2007. Dr. Offit and his co-inventors received compensation as a part of that sale at some point after April 27, 2007.

Dr. Offit has also stated, on January 5, 2011:

Just for the record: I no longer financially benefit from the sales of RotaTeq. My financial interests in that vaccine have been sold out by either The Wistar Institute, The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, or me. I will, however, continue to stand up for the science of vaccines because unfounded fears about vaccines have hurt children. That is why I do what I do and why I have always done it. And I will continue to closely follow the distribution of rotavirus vaccines because these vaccines have the potential to save as many as 2,000 children a day, which is why I joined the research team at Children's Hospital."

You cannot just yell "bias" every time you see Dr. Offit's name. You have to provide evidence that refutes what he says. You have never done that. Dr. offit has no conflict of interest.

The vaccine "pushers" jumped on Thompson because his opinion is wrong. Why do you assume he is right and everyone else who has examined the data is wrong? Only because you want to believe vaccines cause autism.

I notice you are still ignoring my question. Since you assume Thompson is right (he's not), does the study prove to your satisfaction that there is no link between the vaccine and autism in white girls and boys and in black girls? How do you explain that the study shows an increased risk only in black boys? You accept that, but reject the part of the study that does not fit your view?

Jefferson? In his meta-analysis of the flu vaccine he says the studies he used were "poor". If so, then the meta-analysis is also poor. His conclusions can be no stronger than the data he uses to produce them. Garbage in, garbage out. The very nature of flu vaccine makes comparisons from one year to the next virtually impossible, because there are years with mismatched vaccines, like last year.

Talk to an infectious disease specialist and he will tell you he rarely sees patients who were vaccinated against flu in his ICU.

Quote:
The population of MS and WV differs from that of CA. WV and MS are hardly bastions of good health either. Lots of public health problems in those states. I predict the backlash in CA will be immense. CA is a whole different place.
Yeah, the populations of West Virginia and Mississippi are different from the population of California. Those two states are not seeing outbreaks of measles, because they do not allow exemptions from school mandated vaccines for anything but true medical contraindications. In that respect, they are healthier than California.

Quote:
Your tactics are going to fail to sway people. You're way too aggressive and you don't care to listen. You just want to force it on people. That rarely ends well.
No one is being forced to vaccinate. Anyone who does not is free to provide alternatives for educating his child. If it can be done in Mississippi and West Virginia it can be done in California.

Aggressive? Maybe. I am just tired of all the anti-vax nonsense. I will echo what Dr. Offit said:

I will, however, continue to stand up for the science of vaccines because unfounded fears about vaccines have hurt children.
 
Old 06-09-2015, 04:44 PM
 
9,595 posts, read 5,810,036 times
Reputation: 9693
All of the spinning is making me dizzy. Spin, spin, spin. And you wonder why we don't trust you.
 
Old 06-09-2015, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,438 posts, read 28,297,785 times
Reputation: 29036
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Homeschoolers go to grocery stores, playgrounds, public swimming pools, churches, theaters, etc. Even when homeschooled, your vaccinated kids will still encounter the unvaccinated ones.
It's a simple exercise in probability. Put the unvaccinated child in a classroom, and if he gets sick there is a 100% probability he will expose everyone in the class. Turn him loose in the community and the odds that a given person will encounter him are diminished, decreasing the probability of exposure greatly. Being in the same shopping mall with someone is not the same as sitting in the desk next to his for a third of a day, five days a week.

Your failure to understand risk calculation is the foundation of your misinformation about vaccines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I thought that this was interesting and speaks to Poppy's point about how sometimes tactics used to push people into vaccinating backfire.

Effective Messages in Vaccine Promotion: A Randomized Trial
If people want to reject the science about vaccines, they are free to do so. Pediatricians are tired of wasting time on parents who are convinced they know more than the experts and no longer wish to enable their beliefs. The kindest, most empathetic doctors are not able to overcome the delusions the refusers have.
 
Old 06-09-2015, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,895,955 times
Reputation: 7441
CDC: Mercury in Vaccines Damaged Your Child. Or Not.*|*David Kirby
You aren't the only one confused. It's only going to get worse I think. I hope they start addressing more questions and stop hitting their ignore button.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
All of the spinning is making me dizzy. Spin, spin, spin. And you wonder why we don't trust you.
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