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Old 06-10-2015, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,967 posts, read 98,814,535 times
Reputation: 31381

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
"On the other hand, measles alone claimed 500 deaths a year in this country before the measles vaccine was developed. Last year, and for a number of years before last year there were ZERO deaths attributable to the measles in this country."

If you are going cite statistics, you need to give the total number of cases along with those 500 deaths. It does not present the entire picture. There were approximately 5 MILLION a year cases of measles before the vaccine.
You know why we don't have measles? Because we vaccinate! Mark calculated lives save with the vaccine! If we didn't vaccinate, cases would go up to their pre-vaccine levels, and so would deaths.

 
Old 06-10-2015, 07:56 AM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
You know why we don't have measles? Because we vaccinate! Mark calculated lives save with the vaccine! If we didn't vaccinate, cases would go up to their pre-vaccine levels, and so would deaths.
Number of cases. You MUST include the total number or that statistic means nothing. Major difference between 500 deaths out of 5,000 cases and 500 deaths out of 5,000,000. Of course, you would panic even if there was ONE CASE, let alone one death.
 
Old 06-10-2015, 08:00 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,863 times
Reputation: 2377
I truly do understand parents like PoppySead (and even Jenny McCarthy) who have kids with challenges that might even remotely be attributable to something like vaccines. We all look for reasons and explanations for why things happen to our kids and I think any statistic can be used to hang a belief on.

The fact is, even if the vaccine caused some children harm, the harsh reality is I would still support it on the balance of the benefit to the eradication of measles.

On a side note, I find it interesting that a large proportion of the anti-vaxx parents interviewed on TV in California have likely had some hefty doses of botulism in their foreheads (botox) at the same time as they're railing on the harm of science and vaccines...
 
Old 06-10-2015, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
9,809 posts, read 15,908,134 times
Reputation: 6211
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I've had the flu, chicken pox and rotavirus and I would say that I think some of the "pro-vaxx for everyone" posters have deeply overblown these illnesses in attempt to scare people into getting vaccinated for them.
Overblown, oh really??? You realize that Small Pox and Measles decimated the population of Europe centuries ago (Small Pox almost wiped out the Native peoples of the American Continent shortly after Europeans made contact) . Influenza killed more, quicker, than those killed in WWI - my grandmother's first husband died from a flu epidemic in the US. Chicken pox frequently leads to sterility in males if contracted after puberty.
 
Old 06-10-2015, 08:14 AM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts View Post
Overblown, oh really??? You realize that Small Pox and Measles decimated the population of Europe centuries ago (Small Pox almost wiped out the Native peoples of the American Continent shortly after Europeans made contact) . Influenza killed more, quicker, than those killed in WWI - my grandmother's first husband died from a flu epidemic in the US. Chicken pox frequently leads to sterility in males if contracted after puberty.
I wasn't talking about smallpox or measles. I was specifically talking about flu, rotavirus and chicken pox. Influenza deaths from 100 years ago probably shouldn't be used as a reason to push vaccines today as many things have changed between then and now. The flu vaccine is not terribly effective anyway, nor do many people even get it. Chicken pox does not frequently lead to sterility. It can, but that is more of a rare thing then a frequent thing.
 
Old 06-10-2015, 08:17 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,863 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I wasn't talking about smallpox or measles. I was specifically talking about flu, rotavirus and chicken pox. Influenza deaths from 100 years ago probably shouldn't be used as a reason to push vaccines today as many things have changed between then and now. The flu vaccine is not terribly effective anyway, nor do many people even get it. Chicken pox does not frequently lead to sterility. It can, but that is more of a rare thing then a frequent thing.
Hasn't this whole thread been about prevention of measles? If risk of sterility is dismissed because it's "infrequent" how can you seriously advocate about the risk of vaccines (even on YOUR anti-vaxx "statistics")?
 
Old 06-10-2015, 08:21 AM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Hasn't this whole thread been about prevention of measles? If risk of sterility is dismissed because it's "infrequent" how can you seriously advocate about the risk of vaccines (even on YOUR anti-vaxx "statistics")?
Read the post that I had responded to and the one that that poster responded to if you want to understand the context of that conversation. If you click the arrow in the quoted text box, it will take you back to the last quoted post. You can read the entire conversation that way if you want. Or you can just jump in and make assumptions about what was said. Your choice.

Yes, the risk of sterility from chicken pox is tiny. Some people would rather take their chances with chicken pox and others would rather take their chances with the vaccine. It's about choice. The state is taking that choice away from people. I don't agree with the that decision to eliminate choice for so many people.
 
Old 06-10-2015, 08:23 AM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
I truly do understand parents like PoppySead (and even Jenny McCarthy) who have kids with challenges that might even remotely be attributable to something like vaccines. We all look for reasons and explanations for why things happen to our kids and I think any statistic can be used to hang a belief on.

The fact is, even if the vaccine caused some children harm, the harsh reality is I would still support it on the balance of the benefit to the eradication of measles.

On a side note, I find it interesting that a large proportion of the anti-vaxx parents interviewed on TV in California have likely had some hefty doses of botulism in their foreheads (botox) at the same time as they're railing on the harm of science and vaccines...
There recently was a case of a little girl in Spain who had Diptheria. On another website people were screaming about parents not vaccinating their children and bringing back that disease also.

Did a little research. That vaccination only last 10 years. Think about that. If you pass laws mandating all children with that vaccine, will that give Herd Immunity?

Adult Vaccination Rates On The Rise, But Still Far Too Low; Tdap Shots Only At 13 Percent

This article states that for Herd Immunity 85% of adults need to be vaccinated. 13% have gotten a Tdap as of that article. Have 85% of them gotten their TD shot every 10 years? If 85% haven't, is there Herd Immunity? Well, maybe here in the US, but who travels to foreign countries (like Spain)? Adults do all the time on business.

Vaccination papers, Citizen? Blood Thither records? Set up vaccination clinics at Customs? lol
 
Old 06-10-2015, 08:24 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,863 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Read the post that I had responded to and the one that that poster responded to if you want to understand the context of that conversation. If you click the arrow in the quoted text box, it will take you back to the last quoted post. You can read the entire conversation that way if you want. Or you can just jump in and make assumptions about what was said. Your choice.

Yes, the risk of sterility from chicken pox is tiny. Some people would rather take their chances with chicken pox and others would rather take their chances with the vaccine. It's about choice. The state is taking that choice away from people. I don't agree with the that decision to eliminate choice for so many people.
My decision to vaccinate HELPS you (and other free-riding anti-vaxxers), your decision not to vaccinate puts others at risk. Big difference.
 
Old 06-10-2015, 08:25 AM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
My decision to vaccinate HELPS you (and other free-riding anti-vaxxers), your decision not to vaccinate puts others at risk. Big difference.
I'm not asking for your "help" so feel free to make choices that work best for your children, yourself and your family.
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