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Old 06-11-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,904,378 times
Reputation: 27519

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Children already in school still need vaccinations/boosters. It does not end with Kindergarten entry. Simply requiring vaccinations to start school does not solve the problem for other vaccinations unless there is another mandate that every child at every age is up to date for be able to attend public school thereafter.
From my experience as a parent we only got notified if a new required vaccine was added.

It happened one year about 2 weeks before school started.
Couldn't get an appt at the normal doctor, public health clinic was full to the gills and they turned us away.

Found a doctor that would give him the shot though. Not on my plan and I paid cash.

That was one frantic 2 week period before school started.

Happened again with college (new Texas requirement) but luckily places like CVS and HEB (supermarket) give those shots now. Shot was over $100 actual cost.

 
Old 06-11-2015, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,501 posts, read 26,116,900 times
Reputation: 26477
Mandatory vaccine legislation easily clears Assembly health committee - San Jose Mercury News

Measles is slowly killing a four year old in Stanford, CA. He was infected when he was five months old, too young to be vaccinated.

"While dissenters have often pointed out that the outbreak did not lead to any deaths, Pan on Tuesday highlighted a moving letter from a Stanford doctor now caring for a 4-year-old hospice patient who lives on the Peninsula. The doctor wrote that the young boy will die in several months from a complication of measles contracted when the infant was only 5 months old -- before most vaccines are recommended.

'It is not known where or from whom my patient contracted measles,' wrote Dr. Catherine Sonquist Forest, a family medicine doctor and medical director of Stanford Health Care at Los Altos. 'But his family and I want you to understand, in no uncertain terms, that his death will be due to a failure of our herd immunity.

'As the mother of my patient told me last week, "My child is dying because someone who chose not to be immunized exposed my vulnerable baby, and nothing can be done to save him," 'Forest added."

http://www.newsweek.com/lack-vaccina...rooklyn-336467

"The outbreak began in October 2014, the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene said. Of the 18 children who had whooping cough, only four were properly vaccinated. Twelve were unvaccinated and two had received vaccines without the most recent dose for whooping cough prevention.

Ten of the children were under a year old."

Also:

AMA Supports Tighter Limitations on Immunization Opt Outs

" 'When people are immunized they also help prevent the spread of disease to others,' said AMA Board Member Patrice A. Harris, M.D. 'As evident from the recent measles outbreak at Disneyland, protecting community health in today's mobile society requires that policymakers not permit individuals from opting out of immunization solely as a matter of personal preference or convenience.' "
 
Old 06-11-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,101 times
Reputation: 2377
This is my first (and last) vaccine forum - what a frustrating exercise of trying to have intelligent dialogue with folks that simply are unwilling (unable?) to see facts and data and weigh risks appropriately.

The anti-science anti-vaxxers don't in any way address the facts and science put forward by well credentialed, well respected scientists trained in immunology.

Opinions aren't facts.

Anecdotes aren't evidence.

Thank goodness the legislators put the interests of children first, and the egos of these parents second (thinking they know more than immunologists).
 
Old 06-11-2015, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I'm thinking that "vaccination extremists" may be more appropriate then "vaccine pushers". Scary bunch you all are.
I totally agree!
 
Old 06-11-2015, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I too find that remark offensive, especially in light of remarks on this thread about "only" 500 deaths from measles pre-vaccine; flu being of little concern despite 142 deaths this season.
Competing with vaccine injuries using flu deaths isn't compassion it's competition.

Ya, you guys really care. You only care to fight, not understand how some parents feel. It's your way or the highway. We heard it loud and clear.

Give me a break from your high and mighty God of science. Science changes, it guarantees nothing. Variables change outcomes. Plenty of people have put their lives in the hand of science and died. Our healthcare system sucks. It's common knowledge. You think saying our healthcare system recommends it means jack crap? Not enough to lay a mandate on it.

West Virginia as you like to mention kicks kids out of school all the time. The land of homeschool their is a growing group. Even a kid with failing liver problems and doctors notes can't get a pass it. It's NOT on that list made by the science God. Bye, bye.


You know what, I think you just have no other recourse than to stay on the same path, which is fighting with anyone who thinks differently than you. You all parrot the same crap. It's safe now, the scientist tell us so. You 're ignorant, stupid, you're conspiracy theorists. Only the "true" ones know....yada.

But compassion and understanding for the vaccine injured? Please! None of you have that. Or you wouldn't support coercion, threatening, mandates and those are the people who have the hardest time with mandates..

I have no problem using my herd immunity to help guard those who think their kids suffered an injury. My kids took one for the team, I get it. But, you only show compassion if it's approved by the CDC. That's the religion you follow. It's anything but compassionate. And science is anything but a religion, it's not set in stone. You know nothing, you can't say these things with certainty. Oh, vaccines are safe and effective well sometimes they are neither depending on who got them. Why not try just being honest.

I agree, this thread is in need of a shooting and I'm sure you do as well. Trying to get you to see past the CDC God of advice and into the real fear these parents have is fruitless. I won't understand your lack of finding a more humane approach either. I'm joining tlvancouver and agree this is pointless. I can't debate coercion or threats. It is what it is.

Hopefully Mr/Mrs Mod comes and shoots this thing soon. Put it out of it's misery.
 
Old 06-11-2015, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,501 posts, read 26,116,900 times
Reputation: 26477
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
But compassion and understanding for the vaccine injured? Please! None of you have that. Or you wouldn't support coercion, threatening, mandates and those are the people who have the hardest time with mandates..
People who are convinced their children are harmed by vaccines with absolutely no evidence to support that belief deserve compassion and understanding, but children who die from flu - and a four year old who is dying from measles he had when he was five months old - do not. I see.

The thread needs to stay open until we have the result of the final vote and the governor's signature. That will tell us what the people of California want for their state.

By the way, people who have real vaccine injuries will get medical exemptions for further vaccines. They are not the ones with problems with personal belief exemptions. Also, not all chronic medical problems produce a need for a medical vaccine exemption. Some of those kids need some vaccines and cannot take others.
 
Old 06-11-2015, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,979 posts, read 98,832,039 times
Reputation: 31391
^^I agree with keeping the thread open till Gov. Moonbeam signs the bill.
 
Old 06-11-2015, 07:49 PM
 
8,308 posts, read 8,586,427 times
Reputation: 25929
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Competing with vaccine injuries using flu deaths isn't compassion it's competition.

Ya, you guys really care. You only care to fight, not understand how some parents feel. It's your way or the highway. We heard it loud and clear.

Give me a break from your high and mighty God of science. Science changes, it guarantees nothing. Variables change outcomes. Plenty of people have put their lives in the hand of science and died. Our healthcare system sucks. It's common knowledge. You think saying our healthcare system recommends it means jack crap? Not enough to lay a mandate on it.

West Virginia as you like to mention kicks kids out of school all the time. The land of homeschool their is a growing group. Even a kid with failing liver problems and doctors notes can't get a pass it. It's NOT on that list made by the science God. Bye, bye.


You know what, I think you just have no other recourse than to stay on the same path, which is fighting with anyone who thinks differently than you. You all parrot the same crap. It's safe now, the scientist tell us so. You 're ignorant, stupid, you're conspiracy theorists. Only the "true" ones know....yada.

But compassion and understanding for the vaccine injured? Please! None of you have that. Or you wouldn't support coercion, threatening, mandates and those are the people who have the hardest time with mandates..
Its false compassion that causes one to enable beliefs which are outright harmful. The Disneyland epidemic occurred because of the tolerance extended people who didn't want to vaccinate by the state government in which these people reside. Whooping cough is common, but much of it is due to the tolerance we extend people who don't want to vaccinate. Polio is only kept from eradication because small population groups in the Middle East view immunization as a "western plot". Its false compassion to enable these kinds of beliefs in any way.

Our healthcare system is not perfect, but I promise you two things:

1. We have more effective medicines available to prevent and treat diseases and medical conditions than we have ever had before;

2. While there are always exceptions, the majority of people who work within the medical community are hard working, intelligent, and compassionate. (You ought to take a poll what percentage of them vaccinate. I'm sure its higher than the general population).

I still complain about the cost of it all, but that's a different issue than whether we have good medicine and whether good people work with the healthcare field.

I don't like the idea of excluding people either. However, at some point you have to make a choice. Johnny's parents can choose between vaccination and keeping him in public school or not vaccinating and homeschooling him. I am confident most parents will choose public school when the choice is put before them in those black and white terms. Perhaps, the ones who don't will come around after thinking about it for a few months. In any event, its a problem that be rectified with a single trip to a pharmacy.

Vaccines are safe and effective and to say otherwise portrays deep ignorance of the process that must be followed to bring a new vaccine onto the market. It was a system that was arrived at slowly and painfully over decades. America passed through periods when patent medicine salesmen went from community to community selling bottles of an "elixir" they claimed could cure anything from the common cold to cancer. At other points in our history, medicines were badly made and poisoned dozens of people. However, following these events, the powers of the Food and Drug Administration were enhanced. Today, our system is literally the envy of the world in terms of guaranteeing the consumer "safe and effective medicine" and yet, striking a balance that allows consumers to benefit as rapidly as possible from innovation and new, potentially lifesaving drugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
^^I agree with keeping the thread open till Gov. Moonbeam signs the bill.
This is sort of off topic, but I need to say it anyway. I've come full circle with Jerry Brown. I moved to California about 1981 to pursue my education. A much younger and idealistic Jerry Brown was Governor of California at that time. Jerry was in deep political trouble because he failed to heed warnings he got to authorize the spraying of pesticides for the Mediterranean fruit fly which was wreaking havoc on California's huge agricultural industry. When Brown finally did authorize spraying, the fly had spread all over large regions of the state and it was necessary to spray everywhere--including in urban areas. That decision cost Jerry dearly. He was roundly defeated in 82' when he ran for the US Senate.

There is a parallel to all this and vaccination. By mandating vaccination, early on, we can prevent epidemic disease from spreading and causing grave harm. It was a lesson Jerry Brown and most of California learned the hard way.

Now, after years of work, Jerry is Governor again. I think his ideas are much more refined. He is more cautious and more conservative. The "Moonbeam label" is no longer appropriate. Sometimes, people deserve a second chance. Jerry deserved one and I'm glad he got it.

Because of this background, I have no question he will sign the vaccine bill when it is put on his desk. Yes, I vote to keep this thread open until it happens.
 
Old 06-12-2015, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,979 posts, read 98,832,039 times
Reputation: 31391
^^
 
Old 06-12-2015, 06:37 AM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,266,553 times
Reputation: 9105
There was an outbreak of pertussis in a Salinas CA school that had a 99.5% vaccination rate. The four fifth grade students were all up to date on their vaccinations. 99.5% of students were up to date. If anyone thinks that this law will stop outbreaks, think again.
Pertussis outbreak at Salinas school | Local News - KSBW Home
vaccination rate given at 2:04 of the video.
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