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Old 07-02-2015, 08:04 PM
 
563 posts, read 353,611 times
Reputation: 1153

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Jim who? Thinks what? Who cares!

 
Old 07-02-2015, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
7,303 posts, read 3,980,723 times
Reputation: 5907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Skeffington View Post
My daughter is convinced it's caused by pesticide and GMO...she's really fanatical about feeding her son non-processed organic foods and only uses "natural" detergents and cleaning products in her house. He's had all his vaccinations, but their ped'ian staggered them over several months.

Before conceiving him, she ate organic herself for months...what a health food nut she was. Actually, she owns a health food store, so gets stuff at cost.

As far as Jim Carrey, he's about as relevant in middle age as Jerry Lewis.

Jerry Lewis did a lot of good fighting Muscular Dystrophy.
Jim Carrey is just worthless.
 
Old 07-02-2015, 08:33 PM
 
24,760 posts, read 26,839,776 times
Reputation: 22794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
OMG, I am shocked that I might actually agree with Jim Carrey.
 
Old 07-02-2015, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,990,096 times
Reputation: 3861
[quote=tlvancouver;40262517]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post

How nice that you've soldiered through every single childhood illness before 2 years old...

All the illnesses you claim to have had can easily kill people with compromised immune systems (the very people that rely on "herd" vaccinations since they can't get vaccinated themselves).

You seem to find this "survival of the fittest" amusing, for the most vulnerable in our society it's not.

The good news is, if you were a kid in California you wouldn't be able to put your public school classmates at risk because of a willful disregard for preventative medicine.

Please keep posting, you help the pro-vaccination cause with each post.
Last time I checked, vaccinations weren't required for going to parks, restaurants, stores, playing on sports' teams, etc. You can't force unvaccinated kids and adults to stay inside their houses all the time, and people can get these diseases in way more places than just school.
 
Old 07-02-2015, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,584,462 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
All children should be vaccinated. It is the height of recklessness to allow dangerous diseases that we've essentially eradicated -- polio, measles, whooping cough, etc. -- to regain a foothold.
Let me try:

Cancer is a dangerous disease. And not to add a frighting disease, brings lots of pain and suffering to families, costs society/our health care system a staggering amount of money, etc.

A large % of people will get cancer in their lifetime.

Cancer of All Sites - SEER Stat Fact Sheets

"Approximately 39.6 percent of men and women will be diagnosed with all cancer sites at some point during their lifetime"

It is largely a preventable disease if certain lifestyles are adhered too(diet is a big one, so is smoking, etc.). From the medical literature:

Cancer is a preventable disease that requires major lifestyle changes. - PubMed - NCBI

"Only 5-10% of all cancer cases can be attributed to genetic defects, whereas the remaining 90-95% have their roots in the environment and lifestyle. The lifestyle factors include cigarette smoking, diet (fried foods, red meat), alcohol, sun exposure, environmental pollutants, infections, stress, obesity, and physical inactivity. The evidence indicates that of all cancer-related deaths, almost 25-30% are due to tobacco, as many as 30-35% are linked to diet, about 15-20% are due to infections, and the remaining percentage are due to other factors like radiation, stress, physical activity, environmental pollutants etc. Therefore, cancer prevention requires smoking cessation, increased ingestion of fruits and vegetables, moderate use of alcohol, caloric restriction, exercise, avoidance of direct exposure to sunlight, minimal meat consumption, use of whole grains, use of vaccinations, and regular check-ups. In this review, we present evidence that inflammation is the link between the agents/factors that cause cancer and the agents that prevent it. In addition, we provide evidence that cancer is a preventable disease that requires major lifestyle changes."

Hey, and it even says "use of vaccinations", so we know that will light up the eyes of some so I have some hope to get this point across and an answer perhaps on the big picture of gov's role in telling people what to do.

Given these eye opening guidelines, it seems adults should not smoke and eat a largely plant based diet(vegan) as the data shows those 2 lifestyles changes will cut cancer related deaths by 55%-65% alone. That's truly stunning if you think about it.

Using your logic, applying it to this data: What if someone comes up with the idea that all people(including kids, because the seeds of cancer start decades before it's clinically diagnosed), should eat a plant based/vegan diet and not smoke. Do you agree? But the key question.....would you take it to the next level in that the gov will tell you this is what you/kids/everyone will do by a gov mandate? After all, given how these 2 lifestyles alone create so much pain and suffering for families and individuals alike that this scientific study concludes, I would think you'd be for this mandate because not doing so, in your own words for vaccines, "It is the height of recklessness to allow dangerous diseases that we've essentially eradicated -- polio, measles, whooping cough, etc. -- to regain a foothold." Just replace "polio, measles, whooping cough, etc" with "cancer" and there you go....your statement sure sounds just as valid to me with "cancer" added to it. 55%-65% of cancer eradicated ...so yes to the gov mandate to eat only healthy foods and no smoking to make this happen? All foods not considered healthy and tobacco products, ban them?

Last edited by stevek64; 07-02-2015 at 09:52 PM..
 
Old 07-02-2015, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,549 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26564
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
I ask why no one has studied Autism. The criticism was made by a learned and respected pro-vaccination professional in the report. Even she recognises the value of studying the condition would have to the vaccine debate/conflict - to dispell the myth that vaccines cause autism.
Millions of dollars have been spent studying vaccines and autism. Your allegation that it has not been done is easily disproved with a simple Google search.

As the studies were done they all pointed to the same conclusion: vaccines do not cause autism. Spending money on more such studies would be a tremendous waste of resources that could be put toward helping children with autism achieve their full potential.

Quote:
People tell me that it has, but none offers the reason for Autism, nor any links to research that has studied Autism in and of itself. I never met a child or adult with autism, nor did I hear of it, until the 1990s. Cerebral Palsy, sure - Autism, nope.
Yes you did. Then they were called retarded. Many were just warehoused in institutions. They certainly did not get mainstreamed into classes with "normal" children.

Now having the diagnosis helps get assistance and special education.

Quote:
Its no wonder people dont trust this when thats the best they offer as an answer. There is no vaccine war?

Okay, lol. Carry on then. *shrugs*
It's only a war for the anti-vaccinationists, fueled by people who make their livelihoods off of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
It's common sense that a poor/compromised immune system is more open to viruses like the flu, cold, etc. And as I detailed in my post, flu was one of the serious issues that I referenced. You might want to go back to my post and read my details/point as you appear to have missed what I was saying based on the questions your asking, or perhaps deflecting the point I'm making/the question I'm asking.

My post didn't say anything about opposing CPS or their duties. My question/analogy was simply this: how far should gov go above and beyond what some feel should be strictly a parental decision. I know it's a crazy question to even bring up but some people like myself think it's a valid question.
Government steps in with mandates for vaccines for certain diseases because those specific diseases present a clear danger to public health and they are preventable.

Colds are not preventable and whether the person with the cold is obese or not makes no difference. Either can give it to someone else. We prevent the diseases that we can prevent. Other public health issues (like obesity) are important, but obese children are just not the threat that unvaccinated children are.

Quote:
This is 100% incorrect. I stated in posts I see lots of gray in this, see both sides of the vaccine issue so I have no idea why you pulled this out of the air.
It is completely correct. You are saying we should not have vaccine mandates because children who do not eat properly and get fat are susceptible to infections they can give to other children. There is no reason not to demand parents vaccinate their children in order to go to school because a fat child can still give someone a cold.

Quote:
I'm simply making a point, asking a question, and let's throw out my analogy as it appears to be confusing a few and ask straight out.... how far should gov go over the heads of parents in making health decisions for their kids? I'm not talking abuse situations, but simple decisions many might feel parents should be making, not the government.
When public health is threatened, the government should act to prevent it.

When the health of an individual child is seriously threatened, the government should intervene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
What agenda would that be?
For people like Barbara Loe Fisher it's money. Without a vaccine controversy, she's out of work. The others sell snake oil treatments (some very dangerous), books, and supplements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Here's a question for you. No shots, not school? What is your solution for kids and babies too young for school? How will you parents KNOW what other young children your's is playing with is up to date on vaccinations? Example. My daughter took my Grandson to Gymboree (not Day Care) at under 12 months. Did Gymboree ask for vaccination records before signing up? Nope. Some groups were mixed ages with some older children. If they were in Day Care, they would be mandated, right? Who knew if they were in Day Care? Mommies? Staff? Anyone's guess. My daughter is now enrolling him in public swim lessons? Will everyone there be vaccinated also?
Good point. Perhaps we should lobby all kid-directed activity groups to ask about vaccination and to update staff vaccines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
Wow, thanks so much for merely googling the word 'Autism' for me. I guess that just reinforces that no one knows of any studies that have researched the cause of the condition.
Your statement does not make you look very smart, when any simple search on autism brings up numerous studies on its causes, particularly on the genetics.

Quote:
I wouldnt go so far as say it has anything to do with being pro or con vaccination, but I doubt its a coincidence. Someone has it in for Alternative Meidicine it is clear, but there could be a whole host of reasons for who and why.

At any rate, if it turns out to be related, no one deserves to die for having an unpopular opinion. Its the patient's choice whether to follow the advice of strict textbook physicians, or to seek alternative healing methods. Very sad to see anyone react that way.
What is so hilarious about the implication that the deaths of three people who happen to be anti-vaccine must represent some pro-vaccine conspiracy is that it is a classic example of anti-vaccine's inability to understand that one event preceding another does not always mean the first caused the second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Will this California public school vaccination legislation stop all the whooping cough outbreaks/epidemics too?
The legislation will not prevent all whooping cough. That is not what herd immunity does. Herd immunity keeps outbreaks smaller and prevents epidemics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
If you keep telling yourself lies often enough about other people, then I suppose it's no surprise that you believe them. I am not anti-science or anti-vaccine. I am pro choice. Learn the difference and quit abusing the term science. I'm not even sure if you know what it means at this point in time. You are pro- scientific studies that support your agenda and are often not without bias. I am pro-science.
You keep saying you are pro-vaccine but you never say a word that is pro-vaccine. You say you are pro-science but never offer any science to support your opinions. Please forgive us if we do not believe you are either pro-vaccine or pro-science.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I think that is what is making some of the vaccine pushers angry. We are supposed to all believe the same thing and when some of us have our own opinions (some even backed by science. Gasp!). They get upset and angry and try to control us with mandates.
What science? You never show us any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
How does somehow shoot themselves in the chest and then jump in a river? They must have forgotten the old trick of the cement shoes.
A doctor would be aware that self inflicted gunshot wounds are not always fatal. Shooting himself in a location where he would fall into the water would insure that he would drown if the bullet did not do the trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Guess I am one of your "free loaders" getting my immunity from the diseases themselves, not from you vaccinated herd people. Not fair, that is CHEATING. EVERYONE must join the rest of the sheep by being vaccinated.

I had measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox (all under 2 years old) and if you ever heard of it, scarlet fever. Somehow even managed to escape getting polio until the sugar cube (no PRICK) came out when I was 8 years old, which probably were long before you were BORN.
You are not the freeloader. Unvaccinated people who do not get sick because others do vaccinate are taking advantage of herd immunity. They are the freeloaders. Since you are immune by virtue of having had the diseases you did, you are actually part of the immune herd they are taking advantage of.
 
Old 07-02-2015, 09:55 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 749,125 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Let me try:

Cancer is a dangerous disease. And not to add a frighting disease, brings lots of pain and suffering to families, costs society/our health care system a staggering amount of money, etc.

A large % of people will get cancer in their lifetime.

Cancer of All Sites - SEER Stat Fact Sheets

"Approximately 39.6 percent of men and women will be diagnosed with all cancer sites at some point during their lifetime"

It is largely a preventable disease if certain lifestyles are adhered too(diet is a big one, so is smoking, etc.). From the medical literature:

Cancer is a preventable disease that requires major lifestyle changes. - PubMed - NCBI

"Only 5-10% of all cancer cases can be attributed to genetic defects, whereas the remaining 90-95% have their roots in the environment and lifestyle. The lifestyle factors include cigarette smoking, diet (fried foods, red meat), alcohol, sun exposure, environmental pollutants, infections, stress, obesity, and physical inactivity. The evidence indicates that of all cancer-related deaths, almost 25-30% are due to tobacco, as many as 30-35% are linked to diet, about 15-20% are due to infections, and the remaining percentage are due to other factors like radiation, stress, physical activity, environmental pollutants etc. Therefore, cancer prevention requires smoking cessation, increased ingestion of fruits and vegetables, moderate use of alcohol, caloric restriction, exercise, avoidance of direct exposure to sunlight, minimal meat consumption, use of whole grains, use of vaccinations, and regular check-ups. In this review, we present evidence that inflammation is the link between the agents/factors that cause cancer and the agents that prevent it. In addition, we provide evidence that cancer is a preventable disease that requires major lifestyle changes."

Hey, and it even says "use of vaccinations", so we know that will light up the eyes of some so I have some hope to get this point across and an answer perhaps on the big picture of gov's role in telling people what to do.

Given these eye opening guidelines, it seems adults should not smoke and eat a largely plant based diet(vegan) as the data shows those 2 lifestyles changes will cut cancer related deaths by 55%-65% alone. That's truly stunning if you think about it.

Using your logic, applying it to this data: What if someone comes up with the idea that all people(including kids, because the seeds of cancer start decades before it's clinically diagnosed), should eat a plant based/vegan diet and not smoke. Do you agree? But the key question.....would you take it to the next level in that the gov will tell you this is what you/kids/everyone will do by a gov mandate? After all, given how these 2 lifestyles alone create so much pain and suffering for families and individuals alike that this scientific study concludes, I would think you'd be for this mandate because not doing so, in your own words for vaccines, "It is the height of recklessness to allow dangerous diseases that we've essentially eradicated -- polio, measles, whooping cough, etc. -- to regain a foothold." Just replace "polio, measles, whooping cough, etc" with "cancer" and there you go....your statement sure sounds just as valid to me with "cancer" added to it. 55%-65% of cancer eradicated ...so yes to the gov mandate to eat only healthy foods and no smoking to make this happen? All foods not considered healthy and tobacco products, ban them?
So start a thread to ban all these. The entire post above is irrelevant to vaccines.
 
Old 07-02-2015, 09:59 PM
 
117 posts, read 83,515 times
Reputation: 275
Default Measles kills first person in US in 12 years

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonwells/m...rs#.bm8Za8l6XK

Congrats, anti-vaxxers! Your disinformation program is working!
 
Old 07-02-2015, 09:59 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,275,208 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
For people like Barbara Loe Fisher it's money. Without a vaccine controversy, she's out of work. The others sell snake oil treatments (some very dangerous), books, and supplements.
It doesn't sound like she's making a ton of money. It sounds like she started her non-profit after her son had a very serious vaccine reaction and injury. About National Vaccine Information Center I bet she'd trade her job to have her son's health back in a heartbeat. I doubt your BFF, Paul Offit would give up his job or his profits.

Quote:
You keep saying you are pro-vaccine but you never say a word that is pro-vaccine. You say you are pro-science but never offer any science to support your opinions. Please forgive us if we do not believe you are either pro-vaccine or pro-science.
I've never ever said that I'm pro-vaccine because I'm not. I have said that I'm not anti-vaccine. Huge difference. I'm pro-choice and I know that you are not. I haven't bothered to share many scientific studies in this thread since it's more about freedom to choose then it is about vaccines. Forgive me for not believing that you don't have an agenda.
 
Old 07-02-2015, 10:02 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,275,208 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
So start a thread to ban all these. The entire post above is irrelevant to vaccines.
You're missing the point. This is much bigger then vaccines. It's about government mandating what people do with their bodies.
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