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Old 04-26-2015, 12:05 PM
 
1,914 posts, read 1,086,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Not fear, just basic common sense. Once again, nobody is being forced into anything. Don't want vaccinations? Homeschool your kids, or buy a big plot of land out in the middle of nowhere and start an anti-vaccination colony, go wild, be as natural and disease ridden as nature intended but dont expect society as a whole to yield public health concerns to a small minority of conspiracy theorists.
Why do you feel that it's ok to use violence and coercion to force me to inject my child with chemicals using a needle?

 
Old 04-26-2015, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Well I can see some lawsuits arising from this if it passes.
.


Great, lawyers need the work, even when it comes to frivolous lawsuits. There's a truckload of precedent that supports the legality of requiring vaccination, there are other states where there are absolutely no exemptions for vaccination other than medical ones.


No, there won't be lawsuits, just a lot of crying, whining, gnashing of teeth, pounding of the table and then people will get over it and get with the modern era and discover all the other cool stuff we have, like electricity, running water and The Cheesecake Factory.
 
Old 04-26-2015, 12:08 PM
 
1,914 posts, read 1,086,918 times
Reputation: 2042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Great, lawyers need the work, even when it comes to frivolous lawsuits. There's a truckload of precedent that supports the legality of requiring vaccination, there are other states where there are absolutely no exemptions for vaccination other than medical ones.


No, there won't be lawsuits, just a lot of crying, whining, gnashing of teeth, pounding of the table and then people will get over it and get with the modern era and discover all the other cool stuff we have, like electricity, running water and The Cheesecake Factory.
I believe the Declaration of Independence pretty much destroys any notion of the legality of using violence to force people to use needles to inject their children with chemicals.
 
Old 04-26-2015, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
I believe the Declaration of Independence pretty much destroys any notion of the legality of using violence to force people to use needles to inject their children with chemicals.



I'm sure you believe that, even if it were true, the Declaration of Independence is not legally binding. The Supreme Court already settled the issue of compulsory vaccination over a century ago.

https://casetext.com/case/henning-ja...-massachusetts


And again in 1922-> https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../174/case.html

In New York, just a few months ago, another attempt to challenge the state's mandatory vaccination laws for public students was also shot down.


http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decision...6381/1/hilite/



The reality is that yes, the government can require your kids to be vaccinated as a condition of attending public school, no sovereign citizen nonsense or complaining about rights that you don't have changes that.
 
Old 04-26-2015, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,893,919 times
Reputation: 27519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Great, lawyers need the work, even when it comes to frivolous lawsuits. There's a truckload of precedent that supports the legality of requiring vaccination, there are other states where there are absolutely no exemptions for vaccination other than medical ones.


No, there won't be lawsuits, just a lot of crying, whining, gnashing of teeth, pounding of the table and then people will get over it and get with the modern era and discover all the other cool stuff we have, like electricity, running water and The Cheesecake Factory.
I would have to say that California did this to themselves. They instituted the "personal belief" exemption.
 
Old 04-26-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I would have to say that California did this to themselves. They instituted the "personal belief" exemption.


And they can just as easily get rid of it as well. As mentioned above, the Courts have long recognized the ability for government to set public health policy as they see fit, particularly when it comes to vaccinations as long as no single entity is being discriminated against.



Quote:
That’s when the Second Circuit court, as it’s wont to do on appeal, took up all of these grievances anew and rejected them one by one. Citing Jacobson v. Massachusetts, the 1905 case,a three-judge panel ruled in a short opinion that New York was well within its “police power” to mandate vaccinations for schoolchildren. Since immunizations are “in the interest of the population as a whole,” the court said they trump the parents’ individual wishes. The court brushed aside their claim that “a growing body of scientific evidence demonstrates that vaccines cause more harm to society than good,” noting that only the legislature—and not the parents or the court—could make the call on the alleged body of evidence.







Turning to the parents’ religious claims, the court relied on a 1944 case, Prince v. Massachusetts, where the Supreme Court stated that a parent “cannot claim freedom from compulsory vaccination for the child more than for himself on religious grounds.” The court went on to note that the First Amendment right to religious freedom “does not include liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease or the latter to ill health or death.” And because the law compelling vaccinations is neutral—that is, it applies to everyone and doesn’t specifically target a particular religion—no constitutional violation occurred. Plus, two of the parents had received exemptions, so the court viewed New York’s limited exclusion during an outbreak as permissible.


Courts Have Upheld Government's Constitutional Right to Vaccine Laws | The New Republic
 
Old 04-26-2015, 12:37 PM
 
1,914 posts, read 1,086,918 times
Reputation: 2042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
I'm sure you believe that, even if it were true, the Declaration of Independence is not legally binding. The Supreme Court already settled the issue of compulsory vaccination over a century ago.

https://casetext.com/case/henning-ja...-massachusetts


And again in 1922-> https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../174/case.html

In New York, just a few months ago, another attempt to challenge the state's mandatory vaccination laws for public students was also shot down.


http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decision...6381/1/hilite/



The reality is that yes, the government can require your kids to be vaccinated as a condition of attending public school, no sovereign citizen nonsense or complaining about rights that you don't have changes that.
Of course the declaration of independence is legally binding.
 
Old 04-26-2015, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
Of course the declaration of independence is legally binding.

Uh, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but whoever told you that was lying to you. It is not a legally binding document. A historic, honorary document sure, legally binding, no.


In anycase, this discussion has no place in this thread because as mentioned, the law in regards to compulsory vaccination has been settled for a long time now.
 
Old 04-26-2015, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26461
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
As has been pointed out to you many times, many people are being forced to vaccinate. Most parents don't have the luxury to be able to stay home and homeschool their children. Those parents are being forced into vaccinating whether they want to or not.
If they truly believe vaccines are harmful, they will not vaccinate and deal with the consequences. Those who decide to vaccinate did not have a strong enough belief to feel that not vaccinating was important enough to keep their kids out of school.

As has been pointed out, the majority of anti-vaxxers appear to be "educated". If so, they should be able to do what is necessary to home school, perhaps giving up the second salary or arranging schedules to accommodate the time needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
I believe the Declaration of Independence pretty much destroys any notion of the legality of using violence to force people to use needles to inject their children with chemicals.
You might want to learn exactly what the Declaration of Independence is. I do not think it is what you believe it is.

By the way, no one is "using violence to force people to use needles to inject their children with chemicals". Your entire body is made up of chemicals. Water is a chemical. Air is a chemical. Everything you eat and touch is a chemical.

Don't want to vaccinate? Then don't.
 
Old 04-26-2015, 01:11 PM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
If they truly believe vaccines are harmful, they will not vaccinate and deal with the consequences. Those who decide to vaccinate did not have a strong enough belief to feel that not vaccinating was important enough to keep their kids out of school.
Some of them will have decide between putting food on the table or vaccinating. Not everyone can stay home and homeschool. Not everyone can afford to.

Quote:
As has been pointed out, the majority of anti-vaxxers appear to be "educated". If so, they should be able to do what is necessary to home school, perhaps giving up the second salary or arranging schedules to accommodate the time needed.
Yes, people who question vaccines do tend to be highly educated and intelligent. Income is not always in line with education nor is cost of living. Many have to work no matter what. Not everyone can have a flexible schedule which means that some will be forced against their will to have their children vaccinated due to the elimination of exemptions.

People have the right to have equal access to public education. It's wrong to force them out of the system over something like this.
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