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Old 07-06-2015, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,976 posts, read 98,814,535 times
Reputation: 31386

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
My last vaccination was a DPT in the 1950's. No Tetanus every 10 years.I know my daughter (36) hasn't gotten any vaccinations since childhood. Not on the radar with her. Doesn't it make you wonder how many adults haven't gotten these boosters? If they haven't, is there Herd Immunity for those? Might be why there have been so many whooping cough outbreaks. Maybe not just the anti-vaxxer parents not vaccinating their children?

You also left a group of people out - Pregnant Women

Pertussis | Pregnancy and Whooping Cough | Get Vaccinated | CDC

Every single pregnancy. lol Isn't the Flu Shot also recommended for pregnant women? I remember my daughter refused vaccinations during her last pregnancy (no drugs at all she said), and probably will with her current one. Her OB/GYN did not drop her as his patient for this refusal.

While she did vaccinate her son (later), she never got the vax herself, nor Auntie (her sister) nor the Grandparents.

Do you see the "bigger" problem other than mandating school vaccinations?
Well, until some time yesterday, we were discussing the California school vaccine law.

I'm frankly tired of talking about "adult boosters". The only booster recommended for adults, as several of us have said time and time again is the Td/Tdap booster. The idea that adults have to go in to the doctor every year for some sort of "boosters" is fallacious. Any adult who was fully immunized as a child is up to date on their vaccines with that exception.

Yes, Tdap is recommended every pregnancy to give the baby some protection from the anti-vaxers, and as a bonus to protect the mother. Yes, flu shots are recommended for pregnant women, for the same reasons. But that is a special class of people. How many people are pregnant at any given time?

tlvancouver is correct; there is no controversy, except the one manufactured by the anti-vaxers.

 
Old 07-06-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,976 posts, read 98,814,535 times
Reputation: 31386
This just in:
After Measles Outbreaks, Parents Shift Their Thinking On Vaccines : Shots - Health News : NPR
"One third of parents say they think vaccines have more benefit than they did a year ago, according to a poll conducted in May.

That's compared to the 5 percent of parents who said they now think vaccines have fewer benefits and 61 percent who think the benefits are the same.

Vaccine safety also got a boost, with 25 percent of parents saying they believe vaccines are safer than they thought a year ago, compared to 7 percent of parents who think they're less safe. "


That makes it worth it for me to come here and beat my head against a brick wall with the anti-vaxers at times.
 
Old 07-06-2015, 11:33 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,863 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
This just in:
After Measles Outbreaks, Parents Shift Their Thinking On Vaccines : Shots - Health News : NPR
"One third of parents say they think vaccines have more benefit than they did a year ago, according to a poll conducted in May.

That's compared to the 5 percent of parents who said they now think vaccines have fewer benefits and 61 percent who think the benefits are the same.

Vaccine safety also got a boost, with 25 percent of parents saying they believe vaccines are safer than they thought a year ago, compared to 7 percent of parents who think they're less safe. "
Great news! Logic trumps manufactured fear

I'm so pleased to see this California debate has exposed the irrationality of much of the anti-vaxxer "position".

Hopefully this goes the way of other "beliefs" and strange conspiracy theories that science has proven wrong.

 
Old 07-06-2015, 11:35 AM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Well, until some time yesterday, we were discussing the California school vaccine law.

I'm frankly tired of talking about "adult boosters". The only booster recommended for adults, as several of us have said time and time again is the Td/Tdap booster. The idea that adults have to go in to the doctor every year for some sort of "boosters" is fallacious. Any adult who was fully immunized as a child is up to date on their vaccines with that exception.

Yes, Tdap is recommended every pregnancy to give the baby some protection from the anti-vaxers, and as a bonus to protect the mother. Yes, flu shots are recommended for pregnant women, for the same reasons. But that is a special class of people. How many people are pregnant at any given time?

tlvancouver is correct; there is no controversy, except the one manufactured by the anti-vaxers.
The OT is about "Vaccine Controversy", not simply California Legislation. It is very broad topic, and not solely for alternative views of science

My issue isn't a science issue. It a freedom from government control and medicine. The right to informed consent and the right to refuse any medication treatment and any medications put into your or your children's bodies.

Not all "anti-vaxxers" are coming to this from science views. It goes way beyond vaccinations to a freedom issue. I am Pro-CHOICE. Let people decide for themselves.

NONE of us are saying do not vaccinate yourselves or your children. We are saying we want the CHOICE to do otherwise. This legislation opens the door in legal terms to more legislation and down a very slippery slope.

I have linked before Healthy People 2020 and their Objections and Goals. Insanity, especially their vaccinations, and other preventive testing. Pretty frightening. Carrots, then sticks, as we have seen with California.

Only that one booster for adults? Excuse me? You assume that every adult has gotten ALL the Childhood
Vaccinations recommended in 2015. Angelina Jolie had chicken pox recently. Adult. Guess she never got her CHILDHOOD vaccination back in the 90s. Her doctor never told her as an adult? Same with the unvaccinated for measles adults from the Disney outbreak. Only children can get these diseases or will spread them? You will have to wait a generation or two before these children grow up to have perfect Herd Immunity.

Edit: That chicken px vaccine was not in use until the mid 90s. If my kids doctor had not said to send my older daughter to a pox party in 1990, she might never have caught chicken pox. She had graduated HS by the time it came out. She could be walking around today as an unvaccinated adult. Like Jolie? Did you ever consider it might be true for even older adults with MMR? Of course since everyone now has health insurance and their own personal care providers, their doctors will tell them they need them. Really? Do you assume that too? Of course an adult can refuse.

Informed consent to refuse medical treatment, and the simple logistics of vaccinated adults being needed for so called Herd Immunity.
 
Old 07-06-2015, 11:44 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,863 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
....


Not all "anti-vaxxers" are coming to this from science views. It goes way beyond vaccinations to a freedom issue. I am Pro-CHOICE. Let people decide for themselves.

....
We know you're not coming at this from a science perspective..

NO anti-vaxxer is coming from a "science view" - science unequivocally proves that the benefits of vaccines greatly outweigh any minimal risk of vaccinating. DONE.

Your "choice" is to vaccinate your child in order to protect their health, the health of individuals too young or old to vaccinate, or with compromised immune systems OR to homeschool.

Most parents will be responsible members of society and play their role in a robust public health system, but if they don't want to do that the CA legislature has given them that choice.
 
Old 07-06-2015, 11:56 AM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
We know you're not coming at this from a science perspective..

NO anti-vaxxer is coming from a "science view" - science unequivocally proves that the benefits of vaccines greatly outweigh any minimal risk of vaccinating. DONE.

Your "choice" is to vaccinate your child in order to protect their health, the health of individuals too young or old to vaccinate, or with compromised immune systems OR to homeschool.

Most parents will be responsible members of society and play their role in a robust public health system, but if they don't want to do that the CA legislature has given them that choice.
Choice to not be entitled to a public education? Choice to be fired from you job in education too?

You make me furious when you say "protect the babies and old people". When did this old person sign up to be your Poster Granny for childhood vaccinations?

Can that one. I won't be demanding vaccinations of little children for my own protection. If I lived in California, I would be out protesting with them, purely for the freedom issue.
 
Old 07-06-2015, 12:00 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,863 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Choice to not be entitled to a public education? Choice to be fired from you job in education too?

You make me furious when you say "protect the babies and old people". When did this old person sign up to be your Poster Granny for childhood vaccinations?

Can that one. I won't be demanding vaccinations of little children for my own protection. If I lived in California, I would be out protesting with them, purely for the freedom issue.
And thankfully you are in the minority. And as posted above, the minority is shrinking even further. Most people DO care about the most vulnerable (not just themselves), and thank goodness for that.
 
Old 07-06-2015, 12:05 PM
Status: "We're all entitled to my own opinion." (set 11 hours ago)
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
17,387 posts, read 8,548,684 times
Reputation: 18106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
The OT is about "Vaccine Controversy", not simply California Legislation. It is very broad topic, and not solely for alternative views of science

My issue isn't a science issue. It a freedom from government control and medicine. The right to informed consent and the right to refuse any medication treatment and any medications put into your or your children's bodies.

Not all "anti-vaxxers" are coming to this from science views. It goes way beyond vaccinations to a freedom issue. I am Pro-CHOICE. Let people decide for themselves.

NONE of us are saying do not vaccinate yourselves or your children. We are saying we want the CHOICE to do otherwise. This legislation opens the door in legal terms to more legislation and down a very slippery slope.

I have linked before Healthy People 2020 and their Objections and Goals. Insanity, especially their vaccinations, and other preventive testing. Pretty frightening. Carrots, then sticks, as we have seen with California.

Only that one booster for adults? Excuse me? You assume that every adult has gotten ALL the Childhood
Vaccinations recommended in 2015.
Angelina Jolie had chicken pox recently. Adult. Guess she never got her CHILDHOOD vaccination back in the 90s. Her doctor never told her as an adult? Same with the unvaccinated for measles adults from the Disney outbreak. Only children can get these diseases or will spread them? You will have to wait a generation or two before these children grow up to have perfect Herd Immunity.

Edit: That chicken px vaccine was not in use until the mid 90s. If my kids doctor had not said to send my older daughter to a pox party in 1990, she might never have caught chicken pox. She had graduated HS by the time it came out. She could be walking around today as an unvaccinated adult. Like Jolie? Did you ever consider it might be true for even older adults with MMR? Of course since everyone now has health insurance and their own personal care providers, their doctors will tell them they need them. Really? Do you assume that too? Of course an adult can refuse.

Informed consent to refuse medical treatment, and the simple logistics of vaccinated adults being needed for so called Herd Immunity.

People do have a choice. And it's the desire of the majority that their children not attend schools where kids have not been vaccinated except in rare instances where there is a medical reason. You want to ignore the wishes of the majority to suit your needs. It doesn't work that way. You have a choice not to vaccinate your children, but keep them home if you don't. It's not just the government who wants it that way.

As for adults, I've said it before. They have stronger immune systems than children, do not put their hands in their mouths or lick playground equipment.
 
Old 07-06-2015, 12:13 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
And thankfully you are in the minority. And as posted above, the minority is shrinking even further. Most people DO care about the most vulnerable (not just themselves), and thank goodness for that.
We shall see. As I stated in another post, these same mandatory public school vaccinations have failed in at least 3 other states so far. Spreading across the counry? Or maybe these other legislatures do not want to take away parental rights and religious choice? Don't want to make a derogatory statement about California.

If you really think it is a minority of people who think vaccinations should be mandatory for public school,and the consent issue is not a factor, let's wait a bit longer and see what happens with the Federal Legislation proposed back in February. This would mandate public school vaccinations across the country. Great, huh? It is now July and has not gotten out of committee. Probably never will ever. I think the majority of legislators prefer carrots to sticks, and keeping their own jobs safe.
 
Old 07-06-2015, 12:28 PM
 
26,163 posts, read 14,463,143 times
Reputation: 17235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver
The science is unequivocal. Vaccines prevent life threatening illness. Vaccines do NOT cause autism. Any risk associated with vaccines is minuscule in comparison to the illnesses they prevent.
Vaccines COMPROMISE YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM AND LEAVE YOU VULNERABLE TO GETTING OTHER THINGS LATER IN LIFE!!

They are only good for SHORT TERM GAIN!!!!!!! -- Long term they ruin your natural immunity and leave you dependant on BIG PHARMA drugs which they love!! ($$$$$$$$$$)

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20...no-to-vaccines
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