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Old 07-06-2015, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,281 posts, read 6,059,994 times
Reputation: 3924

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Not to mention the CA bill covers daycare facilities as well. You literally have to vaccinate your kids (with all listed on current and any FUTURE schedule) or keep them home somehow.
Yes. People say, "Oh, that vaccine's not on the schedule. Don't worry." It's not on the schedule, yet. Now that CA has this ridiculous law, who knows what vaccines will be added and thus required.

 
Old 07-07-2015, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,193,363 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

His disease was atypical. Despite your effort to portray shingles as a little minor skin condition of no consequence, that is not the way it usually is. Even when people tell you they have had it and how painful it was, you come back over and over with stories about your family where it did not even hurt or itch. We get it. Your family is not like most humans.

The shingles vaccine is not FDA approved for under age 50.
Yes, and this poster has been known to mock people who had severe itching from shingles.
 
Old 07-07-2015, 12:50 AM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,080,046 times
Reputation: 13659
All for it.

There's one exception I'd make..

If all unvaccinated families lived in No-Vax Colonies, where no one can exit without quarantine and then thorough medical screening (at their expense), and required to return to the colony after 24 hours unless they got the necessary vaccinations.
 
Old 07-07-2015, 01:27 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 1,013,605 times
Reputation: 2378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Yes, and this poster has been known to mock people who had severe itching from shingles.
Some of the super immunity claims that have been made sound like the hyperbole that old people get when they can't even remember what the "good old days of measles and polio" we're actually like

My guess is these posters make outlandish claims of contracting every childhood illness before the age of two without even a sniffle or a scratch as if (even if true) that in any way alters the 100s of thousands that died or were disabled as a result of those illnesses.

Again, don't be an idiot, vaccinate your kids and if you choose not to vaccinated (and choose to homeschool in CA) stop misleading other people so they join your anti-science squad.
 
Old 07-07-2015, 02:28 AM
 
9,418 posts, read 13,416,332 times
Reputation: 10304
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
We don't know that, Terri. The vaccine has been in use for only twenty years. We have several more decades at least of following these kids before we'll know for sure.
OK, when it comes to the vaccination debate I basically NEVER agree with MissTerri. Having said that, My kid was born in 1997, got the first Varicella vaccine (can't recall the age), then it was decided that these kids needed a booster, so got that. Later in elementary she came down with a rash on one side of her back that doctors had a hell of a time diagnosing. They finally decided that it was actually a case of shingles. It was not terribly painful, like you hear from older folks, other than that it fit the mold to a T. For the record, my kid never seems to follow the norm when it comes to this stuff, and the pediatricians were baffled as they had not seen this before.
 
Old 07-07-2015, 08:05 AM
 
26,646 posts, read 13,582,058 times
Reputation: 19104
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
People who want to home school rather than vaccinate will find a way to do it if they feel so strongly about not vaccinating. It would be similar to taking a second job. Many people do that.

People do have to find after school care for elementary school children who are not old enough to be home alone. It does exist.
3 hours after school in group care vs 8 hours every day one on one. yeah. It's exactly the same. It's super affordable for every single family.
 
Old 07-07-2015, 08:33 AM
 
10,181 posts, read 6,228,722 times
Reputation: 11258
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
People who want to home school rather than vaccinate will find a way to do it if they feel so strongly about not vaccinating. It would be similar to taking a second job. Many people do that.

People do have to find after school care for elementary school children who are not old enough to be home alone. It does exist.

How Much Time Does Homeschooling Take? • Our Small Hours

"The truth is that how much time it takes to home school is different for every family. It’s likely different for every family each school year, maybe even each season. Because I know that others may find this post while doing the same search I did three years ago, the short answer you’re probably seeking is that it takes me about two hours per day, four days per week to home school two children. I spend several hours over many days lesson planning for a semester and about an hour per week getting ready for the coming week. That includes typing out a spreadsheet of the lesson plans and needed materials, printing/gathering materials and reading over/preparing to teach the material."





The chicken pox vaccine is a live virus vaccine, and the vaccine virus can establish latency: set up residency in the nerve roots at the spinal cord. It can then reactivate and cause shingles. However, it is much less likely to do so than the wild virus. Although it is true that we will have to wait many years to see the effect in people over the age of 50, we do have evidence to support the lower risk from the vaccine. That primarily comes from studying a group of people who are susceptible to shingles at a much earlier age: children with leukemia.

Risk of herpes zoster in children with leukemia: varicella vaccine compared with history of chickenpox. - PubMed - NCBI

"During the period of observation, 15 of 73 children who had varicella [infection] acquired herpes zoster and none of the 34 children who had been vaccinated.

The incidence of zoster after immunization with live attenuated varicella vaccine. A study in children with leukemia. Varicella Vaccine Collaborati... - PubMed - NCBI

"CONCLUSIONS:
In children with leukemia who receive the live attenuated varicella vaccine, the subsequent incidence of zoster is lower than in children who have natural varicella infections."

Shingles is more likely to happen in vaccinated subjects who get a rash after the vaccine or who get breakthrough wild virus chicken pox infections. After breakthrough infections the virus causing shingles is usually the wild virus.

Incidence and Clinical Characteristics of Herpes Zoster Among Children in the Varicella Vaccine Era, 2005

Shingles due to vaccine virus is typically less severe than that due to wild virus.

This is a case report of an adult who got shingles from the vaccine strain virus after the shingles vaccine. The report was made because of the rarity of this happening.

Herpes Zoster Caused by Vaccine-Strain Varicella Zoster Virus in an Immunocompetent Recipient of Zoster Vaccine

"... there have been 634 zoster vaccine recipients who developed HZ [herpes zoster: shingles] and were tested for VZV [varicella zoster virus: chicken pox virus] and for VZV strain type, with just 1 case (0.16% [95% CI, .0%–.47%]) of vOka VZV [the virus strain used in the vaccine] detected. For the physician seeing a patient with HZ following a history of zoster vaccination, the likelihood that the HZ is due to vOka VZV is extremely low. The overwhelming majority of HZ cases occurring among vaccine recipients are due to the limited ability of zoster vaccine to prevent reactivation of wild-type virus, which is 50%–55%. In addition, our HZ case resolved within 10 days with no complications."

As Aredhel points out, those who never get chicken pox will never get shingles. That is entirely true. More specifically, those who never get the wild virus and who are unvaccinated will never get shingles. That is a classic situation of the vaccine refuser freeloading on the vaccinated population.



His disease was atypical. Despite your effort to portray shingles as a little minor skin condition of no consequence, that is not the way it usually is. Even when people tell you they have had it and how painful it was, you come back over and over with stories about your family where it did not even hurt or itch. We get it. Your family is not like most humans.

The shingles vaccine is not FDA approved for under age 50.
If people under 50 are getting shingles, why no push to lower the age for such painful disease? My husband and my SIL are only related by marriage. They are not part of biological "superhuman" family.
 
Old 07-07-2015, 08:48 AM
 
10,181 posts, read 6,228,722 times
Reputation: 11258
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
No, it's not rare. Shingles is on the rise and has been for many years. The shingles vaccine essentially acts as a chickenpox booster which takes the place of the real children that adults would have been exposed to who had chicken pox pre vaccine and who would have given their immune systems a boost pre-exposure. the chicken pox vaccine created the need for a shingles vaccine. There's no evidence that a person's shingles case will be less severe due to the vaccine.
Question? If basically the shingles vax is a chicken pox booster because few people are around others with the disease today, wouldn't actually touching the oozing shingles rash also act as a booster? Much the same as being around and touching someone who had chicken pox?

I was putting calamine lotion on my husband's rash on his back for days with my bare hands. Wouldn't that act as a chicken pox booster also?
 
Old 07-07-2015, 08:53 AM
 
26,646 posts, read 13,582,058 times
Reputation: 19104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Question? If basically the shingles vax is a chicken pox booster because few people are around others with the disease today, wouldn't actually touching the oozing shingles rash also act as a booster? Much the same as being around and touching someone who had chicken pox?

I was putting calamine lotion on my husband's rash on his back for days with my bare hands. Wouldn't that act as a chicken pox booster also?
I don't know the answer but it sounds very plausible since a person who had not had chicken pox could contract it after coming into close contact with a shingles rash.
 
Old 07-07-2015, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,970 posts, read 40,910,095 times
Reputation: 44897
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
3 hours after school in group care vs 8 hours every day one on one. yeah. It's exactly the same. It's super affordable for every single family.
You are the one who does not get it. The number of poor single mothers who do not want to vaccinate is minuscule. Sorry that does not fit your viewpoint, but it is true. The vast majority of parents who refuse vaccines have enough income to home school. They can even continue to work. They school their children on weekends and when they are not working. Married couples coordinate work hours so someone can be home with the kids. Do they have to make financial sacrifices? Possibly. But there are families that do that in order to send kids to private school, too.

Marin County, CA has had a high personal exemption rate, 7.8%. The median household income for 2009-2013 was $90,839. The median value of owner-occupied housing units for 2009-2013 was $781,900. For the same time interval the poverty rate was 7.7%, about half the state average.

Marin County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

https://www.marinhhs.org/blog/vaccin...g-marin-county

It's "educated", affluent families who are not vaccinating.
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