Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You are the one who does not get it. The number of poor single mothers who do not want to vaccinate is minuscule. Sorry that does not fit your viewpoint, but it is true. The vast majority of parents who refuse vaccines have enough income to home school. They can even continue to work. They school their children on weekends and when they are not working. Married couples coordinate work hours so someone can be home with the kids. Do they have to make financial sacrifices? Possibly. But there are families that do that in order to send kids to private school, too.
Marin County, CA has had a high personal exemption rate, 7.8%. The median household income for 2009-2013 was $90,839. The median value of owner-occupied housing units for 2009-2013 was $781,900. For the same time interval the poverty rate was 7.7%, about half the state average.
It's "educated", affluent families who are not vaccinating.
Sorry but it's not me, it's you who doesn't get it. When you claim that every single "anti-vaxxing" family (and you did say all, not most) in CA who wants to homeschool, can, you're wrong and completely out of touch with reality. Even if the number of "anti-vaxxers" who do not make at least $75K per year is small, people in that group still exist. $75K does not go a long way in many parts of the country and if you figure in the fact that that number is also the income of a dual income family who will now have to hire a nanny to care for their child while they work during the hours that their child would be in school then it quickly becomes an unaffordable option for this group. Your insistence that all "anti-vaxxers" fit neatly into a box based is just not accurate at all. Your insistence that each and every anti-vax family can easily homeschool is inaccurate. It's shocking that you continue to argue this point.
Yes I have one!!!! (Psyorsis) .... Im not trying to make Suzy mad or anyone by stating this!!!!!
I dont know what side of the fence your on MissTerri (I hope Im not making you mad by my comments on this thread)
Did you mean to write psoriasis? Are you being treated for it? There are effective medications available. I have autoimmune disease, too, although a different one. Autoimmune disorders run in my family and have for many generations, even before routine vaccinations; therefore, I don't think a direct causal relationship can be established. It's more complicated than just avoiding the Hib or MMR vaccine. That being said, giving vaccines to those with active psoriasis might trigger flares, at least that's what I've recently read. I seem to recall that the influenza vaccine could be troublesome, but that was for people with diagnosed psoriasis, not the general population.
Easy with the excited exclamation points, this has been reported in since the death and discussed extensively on this thread (you did read the thread before getting so excited about your "finding" I hope)?
She was in hospital with an illness that reduced her immune system (as I understand it) which makes previously vaccinated people susceptible (and nobody guarantees 100% efficacy, which is why herd immunity is so critical.
Sorry but it's not me, it's you who doesn't get it. When you claim that every single "anti-vaxxing" family (and you did say all, not most) in CA who wants to homeschool, can, you're wrong and completely out of touch with reality. Even if the number of "anti-vaxxers" who do not make at least $75K per year is small, people in that group still exist. $75K does not go a long way in many parts of the country and if you figure in the fact that that number is also the income of a dual income family who will now have to hire a nanny to care for their child while they work during the hours that their child would be in school then it quickly becomes an unaffordable option for this group. Your insistence that all "anti-vaxxers" fit neatly into a box based is just not accurate at all. Your insistence that each and every anti-vax family can easily homeschool is inaccurate. It's shocking that you continue to argue this point.
I'm not the one you're ranting against but in MY opinion it is a good thing if it is very very hard to homeschool. The income discussion is another bob and weave distraction.
Parents should vaccinate, and only the most rabid anti-vax/ anti-science people are likely to choose to put BOTH their child's health and education at risk by homeschooling their anti-vax child if they're not equipped to do so.
Get the vaccination, be a contributing member of the public health system by protecting others, go to school. Easy peasy.
This post is primarily directed at anyone new who has attempted to make their way through this long and sometimes rambling discourse about vaccines.
Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. The following are facts about vaccines which are irrefutable.
1. No other medical innovation has saved as many lives, prevented as much illness, and at as low a cost per capita as vaccines have.
2. Vaccines have revolutionized the way we approach life. Parents in the late 1940's and early 1950's worried themselves sick that their child would catch polio. Sending children away to school or summer camp was a frightening experience for parents. Epidemic disease went through many American cities. George Washington had facial scars from smallpox. Franklin D. Roosevelt was crippled by polio. Cemeteries were filled with graves, particularly of small children, who died of diptheria, whooping cough, and the measles. None of these are concerns for us now primarily because of the success of vaccination.
3. Compulsory vaccination laws are necessary because of the concept of herd immunity. In short, a person who does not catch a disease cannot spread the disease to others. Disease cannot travel through a highly vaccinated population because the pathogens cannot find hosts. However, herd immunity can only exist when 90% to 95% of the population is vaccinated. This can be complicated by the fact that those who don't vaccinate are often clustered in small geographic areas. In select areas of the country, vaccination rates may be as low as 75% to 80%. Disease can spread in such a community.
4. It is constitutional to have mandatory vaccination laws and our courts have said so many times.
5. Vaccines are not entirely without risks, but are very low risk. It is safer to take a vaccine than it is to ride in a car to the doctor's office for an immunization. There is more chance of dying because one was struck by lightning than there is of suffering a death due to a vaccine.
6. The introduction of new vaccines is highly regulated in America. Before vaccines can be given to school children it is necessary for multiple government agencies to give their approval. Approval often takes years and can be very expensive. This approval is in place precisely to protect the public from unsafe medicines and vaccines. America's system for the approval of new medicines and vaccines is the envy of the world and furnished a prototype for other countries to use.
7. Parents should vaccinate their children in accordance with the CDC schedule. There is no need to "space out" vaccines. This has been studied and the current schedule is used precisely because it is safe. It also results in children receiving the greatest amount of immunity and protection from vaccines in the shortest amount of time.
8. The vaccine schedule changes periodically because as time marches on, new vaccines come on the market and we learn that are even more effective ways of giving old vaccines. It is not a cause for panic.
Nothing in life is perfect, but the benefits of all the vaccines vastly outweigh the risks of taking them. That's the test that an intelligent person should be applying when they consider vaccine safety.
In closing, take a look at the link at the bottom to a graphic. It shows how many cases of serious contagious diseases are prevented over a period of one year because of each vaccine that is given. The numbers are staggering and overwhelming.
Did you mean to write psoriasis? Are you being treated for it? There are effective medications available. I have autoimmune disease, too, although a different one. Autoimmune disorders run in my family and have for many generations, even before routine vaccinations; therefore, I don't think a direct causal relationship can be established. It's more complicated than just avoiding the Hib or MMR vaccine. That being said, giving vaccines to those with active psoriasis might trigger flares, at least that's what I've recently read. I seem to recall that the influenza vaccine could be troublesome, but that was for people with diagnosed psoriasis, not the general population.
I also have autoimmune disease and autoimmune disease runs in both sides of my family. I do think there is a genetic component but I also think that there are likely environmental triggers which could be due to food allergies, sensitivities, chemicals, medicines and even vaccines. There are certain specific vaccines that show some evidence of triggering certain autoimmune conditions. I think that is one reason why I feel it is important for people to weigh vaccination decisions individually. The risk of contracting Hep B may be higher for some then the risk of the vaccine and the opposite may be true for others. That is why I am pro-choice in regard to vaccinations (all things really).
I'm not the one you're ranting against but in MY opinion it is a good thing if it is very very hard to homeschool. The income discussion is another bob and weave distraction.
Parents should vaccinate, and only the most rabid anti-vax/ anti-science people are likely to choose to put BOTH their child's health and education at risk by homeschooling their anti-vax child if they're not equipped to do so.
Get the vaccination, be a contributing member of the public health system by protecting others, go to school. Easy peasy.
But you are coming from the wrong premise. These parents think by vaccinating their children they ARE putting their children health's at risk. That is a higher motivation than public school. A dead child is not going to need a education.
Understand? CD is probably not going to give an accurate picture. Not many us on here are in that situation ourselves. We don't live in California or might not have young children.
But you are coming from the wrong premise. These parents think by vaccinating their children they ARE putting their children health's at risk. That is a higher motivation than public school. A dead child is not going to need a education.
Understand? CD is probably not going to give an accurate picture. Not many us on here are in that situation ourselves. We don't live in California or might not have young children.
They may THINK that (largely due to uninformed, falsified, celebrity endorsed fears), but the entirety of the respected scientific and medical community has proven that risk assessment to be inaccurate and dangerous.
Risk is a function of likelihood and magnitude. In a reduced vaccination environment the likelihood of a serious illness is high, and the magnitude is high. The risk of a serious vaccination adverse reaction is very very low. So stop with the ridiculous, alarmist "they won't need an education" argument.
Any parent that can't read the science and is unable to make even a simple risk assessment is not what that I am worried about offending, particularly when their anti-science bias puts other people's kids at risk of illness or being unable to attend public school due to the risk of unvaccinated kids.
Here's the graphic linked to above:
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
US Woman Who Died Of Measles Was Vaccinated
