U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-09-2015, 12:36 PM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,266,553 times
Reputation: 9110

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
(Takes deep breath!)

The old vaccine wore off as well. "Natural" immunity wears off as well. All (DTaP, DTwP and natural immunity) wear off in about the same time frame. The Tdap was a vaccine introduced to continue pertussis immunity. Regular DTP vaccine (either type) can't be used on people over 7.
Duration of immunity against pertussis after natural infection or vaccination. - PubMed - NCBI
"A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12 years."

It has been PROVEN that failure to vax was a factor in the California epidemic of 2010, which KILLED 10 babies.
Here's the NPR article: Vaccine Refusals Fueled California's Whooping Cough Epidemic : Shots - Health News : NPR
Here's the study it references: Nonmedical Vaccine Exemptions and Pertussis in California, 2010

For several years the politicians tippy-toed around this non-vaxing issue. Finally the study came out and it couldn't be denied any longer.
I also shared the studies about the mutations in this thread. Everyone ignored them except for Suzy who said that the mutations made the vaccine less effective rather then ineffective (my use of the word). The mutation concerns are real and well documented.

 
Old 07-09-2015, 12:43 PM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,266,553 times
Reputation: 9110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
You are conflating two different stories. The 90% is from a pertussis outbreak in Park City, Utah. Nowhere did I ever imply that 90% of coughing people in general have any specific diagnosis.

The burden is on the parents of the five year old, primarily. I mean, yeah, the parent(s) of the baby could move, but a mobile five year old who wants to look at the baby could just move, too, especially since his/her parents were oblivious. The baby's parent could complain to the front desk staff, but anything the parents did short of leaving the office could still result in the baby being exposed.
The burden is on both parents. Parents of a coughing child should sit as far from any baby as they can which may not be far enough away due to the layout of some waiting rooms and the parents of the baby should keep that baby away from coughing child and covered. Or both parents could do what randomparent did and wait in the car. It would also be nice if all pediatrician offices had sick and well areas and pointed patients in the right direction when they check in.

Last edited by MissTerri; 07-09-2015 at 12:58 PM..
 
Old 07-09-2015, 01:01 PM
 
5,647 posts, read 3,198,175 times
Reputation: 6629
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Are you trying to be obstinate or do you actually have a point?

Every parent of a sick kid tries to take care of their kids after they get sick.

It's how the anti science/ anti-vax parents treat their kids BEFORE they're sick that I judge.

Anti-vax parents care way more about their own ego and being smarter than doctors with their "mommy (and daddy) sense" trumping unequivocal medical benefits.

You like to "major in the minors" pointing out little distractions to avoid the changing trend (both at law and in logic) in favor of robust public health through increased vaccination.

The inability of people to act rationally (in the face of extensive research and science) is what makes legislation like California's necessary. You can play this shell game of shifting arguments but at the end of the day protecting schoolchildren is an excellent decision - not perfect, but still an excellent step.
The most common source of whooping cough in infants. I know, YOU, and the medical professionals, do not want to ever consider this one because it is "irrelevant" to the topic. It's the unvaccinated little "petri dishes" of anti-vaxxer parents who are causing diseases to come back into society.


Pertussis (Whooping Cough)

Has Uncle Tony, Aunt Jean, Grandma or Grandpa, Maria the babysitter, had a Pertussis booster before being around your precious newborn too young to be vaccinated? Has Mommy and Daddy either?

Right, I get it. Unvaccinated children because of their parents. Good. Believe that one. Better for the rest of us who are adults without "little petri dishes", or not up to date on our own vaccinations.We can go under your radar. As Katrina says, it the CHILDREN'S vaccinations that only matter to this OT "Vaccine Controversy". I suppose she happens to think Flu Shots aren't vaccine controversial either; only for anti-vaxxer parents.

Does it terrify you to be around ANYONE sneezing and coughing? Oh, no! Is it Whooping Cough? Is it the DEADLY FLU? You anti-vaxxers not vaccinating your children for the FLU!!!!

It really floors me your panic over ANY diseases.

Last edited by Jo48; 07-09-2015 at 01:11 PM..
 
Old 07-09-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Are you trying to be obstinate or do you actually have a point?

Every parent of a sick kid tries to take care of their kids after they get sick.

It's how the anti science/ anti-vax parents treat their kids BEFORE they're sick that I judge.

Anti-vax parents care way more about their own ego and being smarter than doctors with their "mommy (and daddy) sense" trumping unequivocal medical benefits.

You like to "major in the minors" pointing out little distractions to avoid the changing trend (both at law and in logic) in favor of robust public health through increased vaccination.

The inability of people to act rationally (in the face of extensive research and science) is what makes legislation like California's necessary. You can play this shell game of shifting arguments but at the end of the day protecting schoolchildren is an excellent decision - not perfect, but still an excellent step.
Although I respect your opinion (as the above obviously is), not all those against vaccinations are anti-science nor do they have an overinflated ego.

Most parents against vaccinating have personal experience with adverse reactions. If your child had a serious reaction to a vaccine, wouldn't you want to speak out? In fact, if your child had a serious reaction to prescribed medicine, wouldn't you speak out? Not all people can tolerate vaccines. There is a risk involved with any medical procedure.

Recently, a free vax clinic gave expired shots and the wrong vaccine to children. They were shut down but this is also a fear of those against mandatory vaccination.

Others oppose mandatory vaccination because it opens the door for the schedule to increase the amounts and for new vaccines to be added at will. It also challenges the requirement of "informed consent" that allows patients to refuse medical procedures. What if the government wants to require everyone to undergo a procedure and uses these same things to justify it. Where are our rights as parents and citizens to choose?

All these reasons and more are why parents struggle with the issue of vaccination. I respect that struggle and whatever choice they make. We all want what is best for our children.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 01:13 PM
 
4,743 posts, read 3,577,092 times
Reputation: 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Yay! More government telling people what to do with their bodies. If you're a scared of chickenpox, then have your own kid get vaccinated.
For vaccinations to prevent a disease (each vaccination varies but its in high 90% effective) you need greater than 90% or so of the herd "vaccinated". If you do this, there is no "purchase" for a disease.

In California, in some schools and areas, their rates are way below 90%. Mostly due to misinformation and bad science.

It is reckless to make a school a non-safe place for kids. Therefore if you want to attend a school you need to be vaccinated that way even with people with medical reasons (allergic to certain aspects) you don't dip below 90%


If you don't want your kid vaccinated because you think satan lives in it or something stupid. . .don't go to school.

I would like to see this in every school finance or funded by federal dollars. . .or federal tax breaks. Seems solid policy.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 01:15 PM
 
4,743 posts, read 3,577,092 times
Reputation: 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Most parents against vaccinating have personal experience with adverse reactions.
absolutely untrue, why do you want to make up random facts?

its just statistically impossible based on adverse reaction events for anti-vax to be influenced by a personal reaction. reactions just don't happen that often.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,577,067 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Although I respect your opinion (as the above obviously is), not all those against vaccinations are anti-science nor do they have an overinflated ego.

Most parents against vaccinating have personal experience with adverse reactions. If your child had a serious reaction to a vaccine, wouldn't you want to speak out? In fact, if your child had a serious reaction to prescribed medicine, wouldn't you speak out? Not all people can tolerate vaccines. There is a risk involved with any medical procedure.

Recently, a free vax clinic gave expired shots and the wrong vaccine to children. They were shut down but this is also a fear of those against mandatory vaccination.

Others oppose mandatory vaccination because it opens the door for the schedule to increase the amounts and for new vaccines to be added at will. It also challenges the requirement of "informed consent" that allows patients to refuse medical procedures. What if the government wants to require everyone to undergo a procedure and uses these same things to justify it. Where are our rights as parents and citizens to choose?

All these reasons and more are why parents struggle with the issue of vaccination. I respect that struggle and whatever choice they make. We all want what is best for our children.
Well stated. We are back to some of us seeing shades of gray on this issue, not everything as black or white. When we hear "virtually" or a "small few" are affected negatively by something, in this case vaccines, those are just stats.....until it happens to a close loved one. Then it's reality and personal. I think some of the pro gov/pro vaccine cult here have trouble grasping that.

But then again I think there are a few on this thread that are so stubborn on their views and can't see even a bit of gray, they might not budge, just for the sake of "being right". I think most of us know a person or 2 in our lives that fit into such a mold. Or at least see it now in plain view on this thread.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 01:31 PM
 
4,743 posts, read 3,577,092 times
Reputation: 2474
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Well stated. We are back to some of us seeing shades of gray on this issue, not everything as black or white. When we hear "virtually" or a "small few" are affected negatively by something, in this case vaccines, those are just stats.....until it happens to a close loved one.

The idea that people who are anti-vax have been personally impacted by a true adverse event is unlikely.

Your trying to justify someone irrationality by saying their irrationality may be justified. . and that justification is based on a 1 in 100 (or more) event. . .when vaccination rate denials in some areas are as high as 20% to 30%. . .

Regardless - your irrationality should not change your acceptance into a school. You can be irrational because you knew a kid who may or may not of got autisim from a vaccination (they didn't, but your perception is noted).

If you don't want the vaccination due to your irrationality, home school

easy
 
Old 07-09-2015, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post
absolutely untrue, why do you want to make up random facts?

its just statistically impossible based on adverse reaction events for anti-vax to be influenced by a personal reaction. reactions just don't happen that often.
It's not a random fact. I personally have a relative that had an adverse reaction. According to the CDC, only 10% of reactions are reported to VAERS yet over 39,000 reports have been made. That is quite a lot of people (390,000) plus their friends and family that could have a personal reason for being against mandatory vaccination so it is not a random fact that I made up.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,577,067 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post
absolutely untrue, why do you want to make up random facts?

its just statistically impossible based on adverse reaction events for anti-vax to be influenced by a personal reaction. reactions just don't happen that often.
I have the same question for you based on your 1st sentence.

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects

"Any vaccine can cause side effects."

And you can follow through with the potential side effects for each vaccine. Here's the common MMR, again from the CDC website:

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects

yes, the more serious side effects are not common, but they do occur. The issue the poster was bringing up wasn't about reactions being widespread, but the fact that they do indeed happen in some cases and it's a personal choice(or at least should be) in how to respond to these side effects.

Why are you so defensive about someone's view on choice in the not so likely event that a child has a bad reaction to a vaccine?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top