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Old 07-09-2015, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,637,362 times
Reputation: 7672

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
I completely agree.

While those of us that support mandatory vaccinations are willing to acknowledge the science and data of 1 in a million serious adverse reactions, anti vaxers cling to their factually flawed, Jenny MaCarthy fueled opinions even as the single study supporting their view has been exposed as completely fraudulent.

Everyone here who supports vaccines has stated numerous times that they don't always work, don't protect against everything, are not the only illnesses, are valuable for more than just school children.

I will not lend credence to fictional theories as if "feelings" are equal to proven science. There is no debate about the benefits vs the risk of childhood vaccines, only a debate about the right of parents to expose their kids (and others) to risks based on a those irrational beliefs.

So no, I don't respect your view or your "choice" to put society's most vulnerable at risk.

Good job California in mandating vaccines for schoolchildren.
Not sure what Jenny McCarthy has to do with my post/nor do I know much about her nor do I care who she is. Back to the topic at hand....As for the 1 in a million adverse reaction stat you quoted, there are more potential reactions with far less than a 1 in a million chance of happening that are in other categories that aren't very pleasant/can be dangerous.

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects

Let's single out one common vaccine, the MMR on the CDC site:

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects

"Moderate Problems
  • Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
  • Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
  • Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)"
Since you sidestepped the intent of my previous post and went into your talking points, let's play reality. Though I think I know what your answer is to save face on your views that you've stated in 5 different ways in what seems like a few hundred posts. Let's say you have a child who was one of the 1 out of 30k who got a the temporary low platelet count and had some bleeding disorder, was hospitalized for it, etc. This can be a serious condition. Would you be willing to give your child, without question, another vaccine down the line with the same risk profile with no questions/concerns? Again, I'm sure your answer will be yes, "gov tell me what to do and I'll do it because the world has no gray in it and my belief should spread to everyone as a result", but I figure I'll ask anyways.

 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,255 posts, read 99,505,650 times
Reputation: 31759
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
What makes you think that the parents were "letting their child cough all over the baby"? If they were in the same room then it's very possible that the baby was exposed from across the room.
I posted a link this morning that said the pertussis droplets from a cough can travel three feet. The child was at least that close, probably closer b/c a child's cough is not as strong. It sure as heck wouldn't have happened from across the room the size of any doctor's office waiting room I know of.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Location: New Yawk
8,685 posts, read 4,868,086 times
Reputation: 14105
I don't doubt that there is some degree of under-reporting, particularly for very minor reactions, but 90% sounds quite far-fetched (although there are other other reporting systems aside from VAERS). I wonder if that figure is extremely outdated, like from when the surveillance system was first rolled out... or if it's one of those "Someone said the CDC and FDA said _____." For a figure that low, one would expect a primary source to trace it back to...
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't have the link... Here is what it says on the VAERS site (run by FDA and CDC):
"Underreporting" is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events.
https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index
 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,041 posts, read 397,579 times
Reputation: 2357
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't have the link... Here is what it says on the VAERS site (run by FDA and CDC):
"Underreporting" is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events.
https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index
For those that won't go to the link, it is explained that much underreporting is of mild, common reactions such as low fever and soreness at the injection site. These are considered normal by many parents & healthcare professionals. Being so common (I know I've never reported such adverse reactions), this probably accounts for a vast amount of the underreporting. So it's important to remember the definition of "adverse reactions" to vaccines includes mild reactions as well as serious, life-threatening ones.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:06 PM
 
11,981 posts, read 9,772,103 times
Reputation: 16454
^ Seizure "caused by fever" in 1 in 3,000. So not even as a direct result of the vaccine. Lower the fever by taking Advil or Tylenol. That lowers your risk of seizing.

Next: Joint pain. In one out of four people. Well I'd sure as hell rather have joint pain for a few days than get measles. I had joint pain for weeks when I got Fifth Disease about seven years ago and it was the most minor part of the illness. A nuisance, but I can deal if it means I don't get measles, mumps, or rubella.

Last: "Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder." In 1 of 30,000 people. Wow. You MAY get a low platelet count for a short time, which MAY cause a bleeding disorder... if you're unlucky number 30,000 out of 30,000, let's say. Or if you're unlucky number 19,046 out of 30,000. Okay.

All of those, even combined, are still better than measles.

My brother's girlfriend actually had mumps this spring. She was vaccinated. They don't know how she got it, but she got a very minor case that did not last very long. She was better in less than a week, and her neck didn't swell up too badly. Had she been unvaccinated, it's likely her infection would have been much worse.

My brother, who'd been kissing her, of course, when the disease was in its most contagious stages (before he knew it was mumps), didn't get it. Neither did I, and she was at my house a lot, eating with us, etc., before she knew it was mumps. We're both vaccinated.

Eit: Man you guys are posting so fast, my posts with little arrows don't even reflect the post they're intended to!
 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,437,347 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
^ My great-uncle, who died a few years ago, had polio as a child. He suffered lifelong effects of the disease. From then on, he always needed to walk with a cane, then as he got older, a walker. If he wasn't such a stubborn man, he'd probably had opted for a wheelchair in the later years. His feet were visibly deformed. He suffered his whole life. He'd wanted to join the service like both his brothers (other great-uncle and grandpa) but was unable to. I always felt so bad for him. I don't wish that on anyone.

And because of vaccines - we don't have to worry about anyone getting that anymore in this country.
See you are afraid of Polio (and share your story with other to influence their perception) because your loved one was negatively affected by it. By that same token, if a parent has a child who was negatively affected by a vaccine, then they should have the right to be afraid of them and share their story with others.

These are all helpful to someone who is struggling with the issue and it is unfair of people to try to limit the sharing of experiences simply because they label the person as an "anti-vaxer." IMO
 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:09 PM
 
11,981 posts, read 9,772,103 times
Reputation: 16454
I'm not afraid of polio. I just said it's a bad illness, or it can be. Even if my great-uncle didn't have it, it'd still be a bad illness - because it is. I have not shared my story to influence anyone's perception. It is a known fact that polio causes paralysis and deformities. I don't have to convince anyone of anything.

Luckily, we don't have worry about polio - hence the fact that I'm not afraid of it, because it has been eradicated in this country thanks to vaccines.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,255 posts, read 99,505,650 times
Reputation: 31759
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The burden is on both parents. Parents of a coughing child should sit as far from any baby as they can which may not be far enough away due to the layout of some waiting rooms and the parents of the baby should keep that baby away from coughing child and covered. Or both parents could do what randomparent did and wait in the car. It would also be nice if all pediatrician offices had sick and well areas and pointed patients in the right direction when they check in.
The child only needed to stay >3 feet away. That certainly is possible in any waiting room I've ever been in. That child was pretty up close and personal. You have no idea if the baby was covered or not. Those pesky wet droplets can get through a flimsy piece of cloth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
The most common source of whooping cough in infants. I know, YOU, and the medical professionals, do not want to ever consider this one because it is "irrelevant" to the topic. It's the unvaccinated little "petri dishes" of anti-vaxxer parents who are causing diseases to come back into society.


Pertussis (Whooping Cough)

Has Uncle Tony, Aunt Jean, Grandma or Grandpa, Maria the babysitter, had a Pertussis booster before being around your precious newborn too young to be vaccinated? Has Mommy and Daddy either?

Right, I get it. Unvaccinated children because of their parents. Good. Believe that one. Better for the rest of us who are adults without "little petri dishes", or not up to date on our own vaccinations.We can go under your radar. As Katrina says, it the CHILDREN'S vaccinations that only matter to this OT "Vaccine Controversy". I suppose she happens to think Flu Shots aren't vaccine controversial either; only for anti-vaxxer parents.

Does it terrify you to be around ANYONE sneezing and coughing? Oh, no! Is it Whooping Cough? Is it the DEADLY FLU? You anti-vaxxers not vaccinating your children for the FLU!!!!

It really floors me your panic over ANY diseases.
But THIS kid was exposed by a five year old in the doctor's office. THIS kid. THIS illness.

I don't know when I ever said that. It was children's immunizations until, for some unfathomable reason, the thread title was changed.

And you continue to divert the conversation to adult immunization.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:13 PM
 
11,981 posts, read 9,772,103 times
Reputation: 16454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The child only needed to stay >3 feet away. That certainly is possible in any waiting room I've ever been in. That child was pretty up close and personal. You have no idea if the baby was covered or not. Those pesky wet droplets can get through a flimsy piece of cloth.



But THIS kid was exposed by a five year old in the doctor's office. THIS kid. THIS illness.

I don't know when I ever said that. It was children's immunizations until, for some unfathomable reason, the thread title was changed.

And you continue to divert the conversation to adult immunization.
They love putting words in your mouth to twist what you say to either suit their argument or make you sound bad. It's happened to me here twice already.

Putting words in people's mouths and deflecting to that is easier than admitting they're wrong and quite reckless in their beliefs, which have been disproven time and time again.
 
Old 07-09-2015, 03:20 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 756,703 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post

...

Let's say you have a child who was one of the 1 out of 30k who got a the temporary low platelet count and had some bleeding disorder, was hospitalized for it, etc. This can be a serious condition. Would you be willing to give your child, without question, another vaccine down the line with the same risk profile with no questions/concerns? Again, I'm sure your answer will be yes, "gov tell me what to do and I'll do it because the world has no gray in it and my belief should spread to everyone as a result", but I figure I'll ask anyways.
The original thread was about the California legislation to mandate vaccinating children before allowing them to attend public school and in particular eliminating "personal exemptions" (those not based on medicine or science).

The law does not change the fact that medical exemptions are currently being respected and will continue under the California mandate.

You've set up a set of facts deliberately as an anti-vax game of "gotcha".

IF the scientific evidence and medical studies supported the risk of vaccines to my ill child being greater than the risks of the diseases they prevent, then that decision would be made in consultation with my doctor who, contrary to the conspiracy theorists on this thread do NOT have a vested interest in hurting my (or anyone else's child). Medical exemptions ARE given, one of the reasons herd immunity is so important, because some kids are not able to be vaccinated.

I would NOT make the decision based on Google, celebrity or vitamin/book salespeople.
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