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Old 07-12-2015, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,557 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26585

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Thanks for sharing. There is so much that just gets ignored. So many studies that could and should be done but aren't. The field of science is incredibly biased. Note to all that I did not say "science" which is entirely different from the profession.
If you had a brain tumor, would you treat it with herbal remedies? If you had a ruptured appendix, would you treat it with herbal remedies? If your child had type 1 diabetes (which may in some cases be a result of viral infections) would you treat it with diet? Hint: that does not work.

The same "field of science" that allows doctors to perform brain and abdominal surgery and allow juvenile diabetics to survive brings us vaccines. Why is it only vaccine research that is "incredibly biased"? Pharm companies make money off of surgery (anesthetics, muscle relaxers, antibiotics, a whole host of drugs used you probably never heard of) and insulin. Why is only "greed" by "Big Pharm" when vaccines are involved - and we know that what the industry makes from vaccines is chicken feed compared to what it would make treating the diseases vaccines prevent?

Do you have a single study showing that any vaccine is safe and effective that you can show the results of which are biased? Hint: industry funding is not proof of bias. You have to show the source of funding influenced the outcome of the study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Is it or is it not true that prior to the vaccine pretty much everyone got chicken pox? Is it or is it not true that complications from chicken pox increase with age? Why wouldn't parents try to expose their kids while they are younger and while complications are less severe? It's simple common sense and many people including doctors, nurses and parents utilized this common sense and made sure that their kids caught chicken pox during the time in their life when the risk was lowest.
Deliberate exposure to infectious diseases was not universal, though, and it is stupid to do it today. For goodness' sake, with herd immunity, an unvaccinated child, though at higher risk, might never get any of the vaccine preventable diseases. That child is freeloading on the vaccinated population, but it does work.

 
Old 07-12-2015, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,031 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Some old Measles themed family comedy shows from the 50's and 60's. Warning: May contain content objectionable to some viewers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDb0ZS3vB9g

Not just MY experience from those days. If the writers did not think the public would find these funny, they would not have aired them. I remember one show where Beaver caught mumps, but didn't find that one.

Edit: That Brady Bunch episode was from 1969. Wasn't that AFTER the Measles Vaccine came out? Maybe the Brady's were Anti-Vaxers???
Yes, we should all get our health care advice from Hollywood! Oh, that's right, some of us still do, ala Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey!

Yes, a real gotch there, Jo48! That show was in 1969. The present vaccine came out in all of 1968, the first measles vaccines in 1963. You can be sure the screenwriters were old enough to have had measles, probably thought, in typical Hollywood "brain dead" fashion, that it was still circulating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Is it or is it not true that prior to the vaccine pretty much everyone got chicken pox? Is it or is it not true that complications from chicken pox increase with age? Why wouldn't parents try to expose their kids while they are younger and while complications are less severe? It's simple common sense and many people including doctors, nurses and parents utilized this common sense and made sure that their kids caught chicken pox during the time in their life when the risk was lowest.
1. Yes
2. Adults are at higher risk for complications. Chickenpox | Complications | Varicella | CDC I've known a few adults who got cpx when their kids got it. One was a neighbor who is a diabetic. She wasn't terribly sick, she did have her diabetes to control plus two kids, ages 2 and 4, to take care of. One kid had it right before she did (gave it to her) and the other got it right after. It was a fun six weeks or so at that house! Another adult who got it was a friend's husband. He also got it from his kids. His biggest problem was he couldn't shave, and beards were definitely not considered appropriate for IBM employees back in the 70s. Of course, by the time he got back to work he was well but still had the scabs. The number of adults who didn't get the disease pre-vaccine was quite small. Many people who thought they never had it did in fact have antibodies on testing.
3. Because almost everyone got it whether they tried to get exposed or not. I was certainly never taught this nonsense in nursing school. I doubt anyone was taught it in med school either. It's not "simple common sense".


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
She was respected until she started speaking out about the truth and was slandered. I guess you bought into the negative campaign against her.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,031 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You admit the "parties" were common which is exactly my point. I never said "all" that's your argument. No one here is advocating mailing pox. The modern day equivalent is the same as the old days, it's just more difficult to find now.
suzy is not "admitting" anything. She said all she could find was that parties were common. "Find" as in from doing a search! Personal knowledge? She said no such thing!
 
Old 07-12-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,031 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
She was respected until she started speaking out about the truth and was slandered. I guess you bought into the negative campaign against her.
I never heard of Ms. Atkisson until a few months ago when her name came up with the anti-vaxers. She seems to be a whack.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,557 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26585
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You admit the "parties" were common which is exactly my point. I never said "all" that's your argument. No one here is advocating mailing pox. The modern day equivalent is the same as the old days, it's just more difficult to find now.
Your posts have definitely questioned those who say that they never knew of any pox parties when they were growing up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Some old Measles themed family comedy shows from the 50's and 60's. Warning: May contain content objectionable to some viewers.

Not just MY experience from those days. If the writers did not think the public would find these funny, they would not have aired them. I remember one show where Beaver caught mumps, but didn't find that one.

Edit: That Brady Bunch episode was from 1969. Wasn't that AFTER the Measles Vaccine came out? Maybe the Brady's were Anti-Vaxers???
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I've seen this before. It does show a different attitude towards measles then the one portrayed today.
Oh, yes, measles is hilarious, isn't it! Just fodder for sitcoms!

How measles can change a life | Vaccines Today

Measles vaccination rate in the US was only about 63% in 1969.

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/conten...1/S17.full.pdf

Measles was eliminated in the US in 2000 - by vaccination. All outbreaks now start with someone who imports the disease from another country.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 11:59 AM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,275,208 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
If you had a brain tumor, would you treat it with herbal remedies? If you had a ruptured appendix, would you treat it with herbal remedies? If your child had type 1 diabetes (which may in some cases be a result of viral infections) would you treat it with diet? Hint: that does not work.
What is with the all or nothing, black and white thinking? False dichotomy. I am find value in both mainstream and alternative medicine. I would take things on a case by case basis and take in as much information as possible and take whatever approach makes the most sense.

Quote:
The same "field of science" that allows doctors to perform brain and abdominal surgery and allow juvenile diabetics to survive brings us vaccines. Why is it only vaccine research that is "incredibly biased"? Pharm companies make money off of surgery (anesthetics, muscle relaxers, antibiotics, a whole host of drugs used you probably never heard of) and insulin. Why is only "greed" by "Big Pharm" when vaccines are involved - and we know that what the industry makes from vaccines is chicken feed compared to what it would make treating the diseases vaccines prevent?
I think it is obvious that whenever money is involved in funding studies and journals, there is room for bias. I don't limit that to just vaccines or even pharmaceutical companies. It can exist in any field and it's something that is taken into consideration (even though it's not the only consideration).

Quote:
Deliberate exposure to infectious diseases was not universal, though
Never said it was.
Quote:
and it is stupid to do it today.
Your opinion.
Quote:
For goodness' sake, with herd immunity, an unvaccinated child, though at higher risk, might never get any of the vaccine preventable diseases. That child is freeloading on the vaccinated population, but it does work.
I'd prefer the natural infection when it comes to chicken pox which has the bonus of free shingles boosters to the adult community at large. That choice has been taken away from me though since chicken pox is so hard to find. If my kids don't get it by a certain age I may be forced to vaccinate them for it. That is not my first choice though.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 12:01 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 749,125 times
Reputation: 2377
Default "Failure to Vaccinate Causes Drowning"

It is apparent that the facts don't matter to anti-vaxers and the credentials of their "experts" are irrelevant, I say those of us that are pro-science and pro-public health each start our own blogs. Science and facts are SO annoying to anti-vaxers so why don't we do it their way.

Since we aren't doctors we can just make s**t up (doctors could lose their licenses but since I'm a "mommy" I can say how I "feel").

"Unvaccinated child drowns three hours after parents refused to vaccinate, therefore refusing vaccinations must cause drowning." Cite tlvancouverblog.com


Because many of the anti-vaxers are easily swayed by the Internet I feel obligated to add this disclaimer:

I'm joking.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 12:02 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,275,208 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
1. Yes
2. Adults are at higher risk for complications. Chickenpox | Complications | Varicella | CDC I've known a few adults who got cpx when their kids got it. One was a neighbor who is a diabetic. She wasn't terribly sick, she did have her diabetes to control plus two kids, ages 2 and 4, to take care of. One kid had it right before she did (gave it to her) and the other got it right after. It was a fun six weeks or so at that house! Another adult who got it was a friend's husband. He also got it from his kids. His biggest problem was he couldn't shave, and beards were definitely not considered appropriate for IBM employees back in the 70s. Of course, by the time he got back to work he was well but still had the scabs. The number of adults who didn't get the disease pre-vaccine was quite small. Many people who thought they never had it did in fact have antibodies on testing.
3. Because almost everyone got it whether they tried to get exposed or not. I was certainly never taught this nonsense in nursing school. I doubt anyone was taught it in med school either. It's not "simple common sense".
Wouldn't those adults that you speak of in #2 been better off getting it in childhood? That is why many parents deliberately tried to expose them. They knew that everyone would get it sooner or later so many exposed their kids when the opportunity arose (chicken pox "parties") so that they could get it over with and not have to worry about it as adults when the risk was greater. It's pretty simple and logical.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 12:04 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,275,208 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
suzy is not "admitting" anything. She said all she could find was that parties were common. "Find" as in from doing a search! Personal knowledge? She said no such thing!
Well then if personal knowledge is preferable I know tons of people who's parents deliberately exposed them in childhood. Lots and lots. It was common.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 12:05 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 749,125 times
Reputation: 2377
So we've had a sitcom referenced as support for a medical statement around exposure, and another poster complaining that it's "like, so hard to find a good chicken pox infection when you need one".

These cannot be serious posters, we are being "Punked" right? Ashton Kutcher come on out.

Nobody can ACTUALLY believe that the illnesses vaccines prevent are better and less risky than the vaccines. That's absolutely stupid.
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