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Old 07-12-2015, 02:30 PM
 
11,966 posts, read 9,734,777 times
Reputation: 16411

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
FWIW - my experience on this? My FIL was insulin dependent and then he lost 200 lbs and was able to manage his diabetes with diet not needing insulin at all. I don't believe that having diabetes means you will need insulin forever. There are several factors involved. However, I did notice that there are way more kids with diabetes than ever before. I wonder what is causing this?
You are referring to type 2 diabetes. If you have type 1 diabetes you need insulin forever. You always need to check your sugar level and inject appropriately.

It's sad how misinformed that post is/you are. Now I will definitely take what you say on vaccines with a grain of salt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I'm not playing hardball. Whatever that's supposed to mean. I just don't have any experience with type 1 diabetes so I can't answer Suzy's question. I'm not sure what your problem with that is. Or why you're trying to argue with me for basically saying, "I don't know".
You don't need experience to know that type 1 diabetics need insulin. There is no other treatment and to try to treat any other way would be reckless and you would be risking that person's life.

Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 07-12-2015 at 02:45 PM..

 
Old 07-12-2015, 03:01 PM
 
5,705 posts, read 3,244,605 times
Reputation: 6692
My feeling is that one vaccine creates the need for another vaccine. Chicken pox is the perfect example creating the need for the Shingle Vaccine because people are not getting the natural "boosters" from being exposed to the diseases.

Suzy said that there were shingles long before the Varcilla vaccine. Of course, there were always "spinsters and life long bachelors" who were never around younger generations with chicken pox.

If Shingles is a disease of old people, why are so many younger people getting it? CHILDREN, their own or others, are not coming down with it today. They are not being exposed to the disease as in the past. You can add Grandparents to the mix. No Grandkids for them to be exposed to giving them their NATURAL boosters to these diseases. Don't worry we have ANOTHER VACCINE to protect for that.

Suzy, and Katrina, as an old person, I would rather get my natural booster from coming into contact with the disease, both measles and chicken pox, than take an vaccine booster laced with chemicals.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,422,805 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
You are referring to type 2 diabetes. If you have type 1 diabetes you need insulin forever. You always need to check your sugar level and inject appropriately.

It's sad how misinformed that post is/you are. Now I will definitely take what you say on vaccines with a grain of salt.
Actually it was late-onset Type 1 (LADA) but you can think whatever you want or take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I am pro-choice on that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
You don't need experience to know that type 1 diabetics need insulin. There is no other treatment and to try to treat any other way would be reckless and you would be risking that person's life.
She was saying that she had no experience in treating it and she doesn't know. I don't know how much more clear she could be...

Modern medicine does nothing to cure diabetes by only treating the symptom (insulin deficiency). Also, there are a couple doctors who claim to be able to cure it by treating the underlying cause.

AND there could be alternative treatments (there's several threads in the Health and Wellness section).

"There are two substances that are known to mimic insulin, leading to the need for less insulin. These two items are cinnamon and liquid ionic vanadium."

Read More Introduction to Natural Treatments of Type I Diabetes

In any case... I don't understand what this all has to do with vaccines.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 754,421 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
My feeling is that one vaccine creates the need for another vaccine.
This one sentence perfectly captures the absurdity and stupidity of the anti-vax movement.

FEELING has NOTHING to do with science and medicine. It's another word for completely uninformed GUESS.

I'm sitting in a group of medical professionals including 2 family doctors and a research PhD and the posts from "Jo" and "MissTerri" had them laughing out loud.

It's particularly humorous how annoyed they get about being linked to Jenny MaCarthy and then quote another (discredited) media person as a source. You understand it's not WHO says something, it still boils down to science, medicine and evidence instead of "feelings".

The ideas in this thread from the anti-vax camp are so stupid and out there that it is frightening that some people even believe either what they're reading or (in this thread) that some people actually believe what they type even when presented with unequivocal evidence that vaccines are exponentially safer than the diseases they prevent.

You don't believe the earth is flat do you? I think there's a blog on that somewhere...
 
Old 07-12-2015, 04:34 PM
 
1,603 posts, read 849,784 times
Reputation: 1168
By sending your child to a public school, you sacrifice certain rights. No unvaccinated kids.

Homeschool or private school, I don't care.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,621,373 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
FEELING has NOTHING to do with science and medicine.
But medicine isn't all black and white science. It's often an art, which often does include a "feel" or "intuition" in certain circumstances on how best to approach a given problem, and which piece of science to apply. It's not all black and white and that's the art piece.

And don't forget the $ component.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,691 posts, read 26,380,886 times
Reputation: 26860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
My feeling is that one vaccine creates the need for another vaccine. Chicken pox is the perfect example creating the need for the Shingle Vaccine because people are not getting the natural "boosters" from being exposed to the diseases.

Suzy said that there were shingles long before the Varcilla vaccine. Of course, there were always "spinsters and life long bachelors" who were never around younger generations with chicken pox.

If Shingles is a disease of old people, why are so many younger people getting it? CHILDREN, their own or others, are not coming down with it today. They are not being exposed to the disease as in the past. You can add Grandparents to the mix. No Grandkids for them to be exposed to giving them their NATURAL boosters to these diseases. Don't worry we have ANOTHER VACCINE to protect for that.

Suzy, and Katrina, as an old person, I would rather get my natural booster from coming into contact with the disease, both measles and chicken pox, than take an vaccine booster laced with chemicals.
People of all ages got shingles before the vaccine. The risk of getting it just gets higher as you get older.

Your whole body is chemicals. It has natural levels of the chemicals in vaccines that are much higher than what you get from all the vaccines an individual would ever take. About half your body weight is monohydrogen dioxide, which can kill you if you drink too much or inhale it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Actually it was late-onset Type 1 but you can think whatever you want or take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I am pro-choice on that too.
Your link does not work. However, people with late onset type 1 diabetes also usually end up on insulin. They also tend to not be overweight.

Understanding Adult-Onset Type 1 Diabetes - Type 1 Diabetes Center - Everyday Health


Quote:
She was saying that she had no experience in treating it and she doesn't know. I don't know how much more clear she could be...
Most of us know what type 1 diabetes is, and a simple Google search should provide the basic info. She is dodging the question, the way she often does.

Quote:
Modern medicine does nothing to cure diabetes by only treating the symptom (insulin deficiency). Also, there are a couple doctors who claim to be able to cure it by treating the underlying cause.

AND there could be alternative treatments (there's several threads in the Health and Wellness section).

"There are two substances that are known to mimic insulin, leading to the need for less insulin. These two items are cinnamon and liquid ionic vanadium."

In any case... I don't understand what this all has to do with vaccines.
It has to do with the attitude toward medicine and medical studies.

Speaking of studies, where are those that compare "cinnamon and liquid ionic vanadium" to insulin in the treatment of type 1 diabetes?

Why will you believe a web site run by an insurance salesman who believes Einstein was wrong about the Theory of Relativity rather than people who actually research diabetes and treat patients with it? He is an evolution denialist, too.

The site you linked to is one of the worst pieces of anti-medicine garbage I have seen, and I have seen a lot of them. It does not try to sell you anything - it just refers you to another site that you have to pay to access to learn how to "cure" your diabetes. Wink. Wink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
But medicine isn't all black and white science. It's often an art, which often does include a "feel" or "intuition" in certain circumstances on how best to approach a given problem, and which piece of science to apply. It's not all black and white and that's the art piece.

And don't forget the $ component.
There is certainly an art to medicine, but that most often comes into play in making a diagnosis, decoding symptoms that may be the same for many diseases or atypical of a given disease. I know of a woman who was diagnosed with severe cardiac artery disease. Her presenting symptom was pain behind her left ear. An astute clinician, who had seen other women with atypical symptoms of heart disease obtained an EKG, which was abnormal.

However, the science behind vaccines is well established. No "feelings or intuition" are required to understand it.

The health care system would make billions more treating vaccine preventable diseases than it does on vaccines.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 754,421 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
But medicine isn't all black and white science. It's often an art, which often does include a "feel" or "intuition" in certain circumstances on how best to approach a given problem, and which piece of science to apply. It's not all black and white and that's the art piece.

And don't forget the $ component.
Yes doctors don't work for free, I'm guessing you don't either so everything you say at work must be false

The notion that there is an art and a science still presupposes the underlying medical training to adapt. It's not an Internet posters' "Spidey sense" without any (or even worse, false and debunked) scientific study.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 05:34 PM
 
8,547 posts, read 5,320,869 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
She was saying that she had no experience in treating it and she doesn't know. I don't know how much more clear she could be.
Thank you.
 
Old 07-12-2015, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,621,373 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Yes doctors don't work for free, I'm guessing you don't either so everything you say at work must be false

The notion that there is an art and a science still presupposes the underlying medical training to adapt. It's not an Internet posters' "Spidey sense" without any (or even worse, false and debunked) scientific study.
I never meant to imply that Dr's or anyone should work for free in any field, unless of course one chooses to donate their time of course. You took my simple line in a direction far from its original intention.

As for the art and science component, yes, as I posted, there is indeed a science component at play and that should be at play. At the same token, I think you also realize "science" is a sliding scale and prone to change in the world of medicine over time, sometimes dramatically. And given decisions aren't made in a vacuum/everything going by the textbook/recipe fantasy world, the fact remains that science isn't always the beginning/ending in how decisions are made in the medical world, or any other field for that matter. And not to mention we know painfully very little as a whole on how the human body works, let alone how each component works in concert with other components and the variability of it all. I think sometimes humans let their ego play a little too much on how much we think we know about something vs reality. So again, back to nothing is 100% black and white in medicine and decisions don't exist in a neat textbook vacuum though each of us is entitled to believe otherwise.
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