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Old 07-13-2015, 09:50 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 751,977 times
Reputation: 2377

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Here's a story that puts the chicken pox risk into perspective.

Harmless? No, chickenpox killed one of these boys and left the other stricken for years | Daily Mail Online

Twin sons, they get chickenpox and one dies.

So let's deal with chicken pox - the one posters here think we should have parties so kids can catch it...

Before vaccines approximately 100 people per year died of chicken pox. That's more deaths from chicken pox alone in one year than the most strident anti-vaxer could attribute to ALL vaccines (including measles, mumps and polio) in 10 years [and likely the figure is far far lower related to vaccines].

How does it possibly make sense to minimize chicken pox which KILLED 100 people per year and then, with a straight face, indicate we should be "terrified" of vaccines?

 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,606 posts, read 26,281,486 times
Reputation: 26676
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Pharmaceutical companies and their trade groups gave more than $2 million to current members of the Legislature in 2013-2014, about 2 percent of the total raised, records show.

Funny how this seems to be the cart before the horse in these mandates.....Gotta love our for profit healthcare system. Anything for a buck. We need to get rid of it.

Doctors lying to patients about cancer and bowel disease just to make money off healthy people. Mandating vaccines without any hint of an epidemic in our country.

They have to post warnings to run t.v. commercials on drugs, I hope they have to post warnings before they vaccinate. At least they should be required to have people read the insert and sign a paper.
You think anti-vaccinationists do not lobby?

Chiropractors lobby against bill ending belief exemptions for vaccines - LA Times

"Unlike most groups opposing the bill, the chiropractors have a well-established Capitol presence: they spent more than $170,000 on lobbying and gave around $130,000 in campaign contributions in 2014."

That's just the chiropractors. The naturopaths participated, too.

One doctor lied about his patients' diagnoses. He deserves to go to prison. You cannot turn that into "Doctors lying".

Every vaccine comes with an information sheet. Anyone who has questions about a vaccine should read the information sheet and ask them before taking the vaccine.

Side effects listed in the package insert are included even if there is no confirmed causality between the vaccine and the "side effect". This was discussed earlier in the thread. It is really not hard to understand.

You keep harping on "our for profit health care system." Again, we discussed this up thread. Australia, with its universal heath care system uses vaccines and has strong financial penalties for not vaccinating. "For profit" has nothing to do with vaccine mandates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So we need 3 doses now? Wow then 5 doses would be even better... what about 10 doses. Hmmm... maybe it just doesn't ****ing work?
If vaccines did not work, we would still be having epidemics of vaccine preventable diseases. Do you know anyone who has a child who has had smallpox? Polio? Diphtheria? You may know someone who has had a child who has had measles or whooping cough, though it is likely that you do not.

If vaccines need boosters, then they need boosters. That does not mean they do not work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
My post is why. We are a for profit healthcare system, private studies get no funding. It's expensive. Only large corporations have the money to do studies and they don't have to be that long or thorough.

Here is one that showed baby monkeys having autism like reactions to vaccines. I doubt anyone will believe it.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...tism-research/
Plenty of vaccine research is done worldwide using no drug company money at all. Vaccine studies can include hundreds of thousands of participants. Surveillance continues even after the vaccine is released for general use. Your state ment that studies "don't have to be that long or thorough" is false.

I can only assume you did not read your own link. It shows why the study on monkeys with "autism like reactions to vaccines" is worthless. Thanks for posting it.

Quote:
If we had a non profit system, there would be no need for mandates without an epidemic. Our outbreaks are small, even with the disney outbreak it's less than previous years. We h ave a pretty high voluntary vaccine rate. The motivation rhetoric to encourage mandates are "what if's" or "it could be's" not real data. Not current epidemics. They lobby for mandates, not to save the world but to make a profit. They are a business after all. So is the cancer doctor that told healthy patients they had cancer to make money off their treatment. Ethics don't really come first, profit is the bottom line and nobody pretends it isn't. Except maybe laymen who don't know much about corporate operations.
The change in California's mandate law was prompted by a large outbreak. Large outbreaks become epidemics. For several years now, such outbreaks have happened in the US as overall vaccination rates have fallen below the level needed to preserve herd immunity, especially in some localities. You do not wait until you already have an epidemic to do something. Mandates will help to get vaccination rates back up and prevent large outbreaks and epidemics.

The crook cancer doctor is irrelevant to this discussion. He is not representative of all doctors and you know it. Repeated references to him do not support your arguments at all.

Quote:
The drug companies threatened to stop making the vaccines because they lacked profit, so they received mandates as incentive. This is common news, it's easy to find. Their business is always profit driven, not the health care of Americans, it would be silly if it were. They make the most money off us here. We are their largest profit market.
Vaccines Are Profitable, So What? - The Atlantic

You don't see other studies because they would, simply put, hurt their business.
It seems you are not actually reading any of your links today. That article shows why your argument about profit is a flop.

"Not only do pediatricians and doctors often lose money on vaccine administration, it wasn't too long ago that the vaccine industry was struggling with slim profit margins and shortages. The Economist wrote that 'for decades vaccines were a neglected corner of the drugs business, with old technology, little investment and abysmal profit margins. Many firms sold their vaccine divisions to concentrate on more profitable drugs.' "

The incentive to make vaccines was not mandates, it was a no-fault system for compensating people injured by vaccines. The number of additional doses of vaccines that will be sold due to mandates is going to add very little to manufacturers' bottom lines.

Vaccine makers would make more money if we had no vaccines. Treating vaccine preventable diseases would be way more profitable. Insisting on recycling arguments that are so obviously flawed is a really strange approach to take.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:28 AM
 
8,547 posts, read 5,298,716 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
So, did you both have measles, chickenpox, etc when you were children? What about your own children? Did you try to make sure they had chickenpox when young?

Because it was understood 30+ years ago that it was better for your child to get chickenpox when young because it was a dangerous disease if you didn't have immunity and got it when you were an adult. So of course we all tried to make sure our children caught it!

Back when my kids were little, I babysat the neighbor kids. One child broke out in chickenpox on a Friday, and every Friday a new child broke out for several weeks. Everyone got it except my 4 year old, so I hoped she just had an extremely mild case with no symptoms. Parents were very happy to be through it. We knew how to care for the children through the course of the illness, there was nothing insane about the practice. In fact, to prevent your child from getting chickenpox so they could get it as an adult would have been seen as insane.

Exactly. Early exposure was just common sense and it was very common practice. It wasn't a "antivaxxer" thing by any means.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:33 AM
 
8,361 posts, read 8,634,767 times
Reputation: 26119
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Exactly. Early exposure was just common sense and it was very common practice. It wasn't a "antivaxxer" thing by any means.
This made a modicum of sense before there was a vaccine for chicken pox and the other childhood diseases.

Now that we have automobiles, its no longer necessary to teach children how to saddle a horse either.

I still resent the idiots in my neighborhood that chose to deliberately expose my daughter to chicken pox without saying a word to us. Good thing, she has just been vaccinated and her case was short and mild.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:36 AM
 
11,941 posts, read 9,691,541 times
Reputation: 16345
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
But my child would have less chance to get diabetes if they are not vaccinated. Also, I have 4 kids that are "under" vaccinated and they are perfectly healthy.

Yet you don't see that diabetes is a disease that has symptoms. The symptom is insulin deficiency. However, the underlying cause is never addressed by the medical community. Why?
THEY test vaccines.... who is the "THEY" that you speak of? And the tests they did. What were the controls? Where did the money for the tests come from?

Actually, many kids can be unvaccinated by law in this new bill because if they are not changing schools (like an elementary school to middle school or middle school to high school) then they do not need to be vaccinated. This all starts in 2016 so if I have a HSer in 9th grade, then they can be unvaccinated until 2019 when they graduate.

Did you read the bill in question? And if so, how does that "protect" the rest of the population? Also.... Does this really mean that more kids will be bullied...errrrr vaccinated?
... Did you really just claim that vaccines cause diabetes?
 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:37 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 751,977 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Exactly. Early exposure was just common sense and it was very common practice. It wasn't a "antivaxxer" thing by any means.
The Anti-vax view: I will deliberately expose my child to chicken pox an uncomfortable illness (at best) or even life threatening, in order to prevent them from getting what I ADMIT is a very serious adult illness. I know 100 people a year died from it, but I will NOT agree to a safe vaccine that serves the same purpose.

Umm, okay.

 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:37 AM
 
11,941 posts, read 9,691,541 times
Reputation: 16345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
You know what the answer to the bold will be. "I haven't been in that situation, I can't tell you".
"Sorry I don't have experience in that."

AKA I know you're right and I'm being intentionally obtuse.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:38 AM
 
8,547 posts, read 5,298,716 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
This made a modicum of sense before there was a vaccine for chicken pox and the other childhood diseases.
That's what we have been talking about. Some deny that it was common back then.
Quote:
I still resent the idiots in my neighborhood that chose to deliberately expose my daughter to chicken pox without saying a word to us. Good thing, she has just been vaccinated and her case was short and mild.
I resent the idiots who have knowingly exposed my child to strep, stomach bugs and the flu. There are lots of parents who don't think and they are not confined to just those who don't vaccinate or just to VPD.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:40 AM
 
8,547 posts, read 5,298,716 times
Reputation: 9120
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
"Sorry I don't have experience in that."

AKA I know you're right and I'm being intentionally obtuse.
What is your problem? It's so obnoxious how you continue with this.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 10:41 AM
 
11,941 posts, read 9,691,541 times
Reputation: 16345
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
What is your problem?
What's yours?
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