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Old 07-13-2015, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,892,263 times
Reputation: 7699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Opponents, what other options do see that would prevent a resurgence of these diseases?
I would say leave things the way they are now in most states, a personal choice to vaccinate or not, and don't tie something like public school attendance to those who decide their kids shouldn't get vaccinated for whatever reason.

Each one of us is around people everyday who make risky choices in their lives that can potentially affect our health/well being yet we don't have sweeping legislation on those issues. And if vaccines are so effective as science and some people on this board seem to indicate they are, why are those who get vaccinated/get their kids vaccinated so uptight about what everyone else does/doesn't do? The vast majority who choose to get vaccinated will be just fine after all with extremely low odds of getting something, right? I would say leave other people alone who decide to take a risk for whatever reason(s) as it's not the government's business or other busy bodies to decide.

 
Old 07-13-2015, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,643,419 times
Reputation: 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I would say leave things the way they are now in most states, a personal choice to vaccinate or not, and don't tie something like public school attendance to those who decide their kids shouldn't get vaccinated for whatever reason.

Each one of us is around people everyday who make risky choices in their lives that can potentially affect our health/well being yet we don't have sweeping legislation on those issues. And if vaccines are so effective as science and some people on this board seem to indicate they are, why are those who get vaccinated/get their kids vaccinated so uptight about what everyone else does/doesn't do? The vast majority who choose to get vaccinated will be just fine after all with extremely low odds of getting something, right? I would say leave other people alone who decide to take a risk for whatever reason(s) as it's not the government's business or other busy bodies to decide.
And what are the chances of eliminating Hep A or B? Or HPV? or the Flu?
 
Old 07-13-2015, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,103 posts, read 15,660,257 times
Reputation: 9808
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I would say leave things the way they are now in most states, a personal choice to vaccinate or not, and don't tie something like public school attendance to those who decide their kids shouldn't get vaccinated for whatever reason.

Each one of us is around people everyday who make risky choices in their lives that can potentially affect our health/well being yet we don't have sweeping legislation on those issues. And if vaccines are so effective as science and some people on this board seem to indicate they are, why are those who get vaccinated/get their kids vaccinated so uptight about what everyone else does/doesn't do? The vast majority who choose to get vaccinated will be just fine after all with extremely low odds of getting something, right? I would say leave other people alone who decide to take a risk for whatever reason(s) as it's not the government's business or other busy bodies to decide.
I think they do of it is medical or religious but that is it for most states. Otherwise, it is you are immunized. Unless you attend a religious private school, you may still face it in private schools though. Of course, it varies on the state laws.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 07:47 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 790,655 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I would say leave things the way they are now in most states, a personal choice to vaccinate or not, and don't tie something like public school attendance to those who decide their kids shouldn't get vaccinated for whatever reason.

Each one of us is around people everyday who make risky choices in their lives that can potentially affect our health/well being yet we don't have sweeping legislation on those issues. And if vaccines are so effective as science and some people on this board seem to indicate they are, why are those who get vaccinated/get their kids vaccinated so uptight about what everyone else does/doesn't do? The vast majority who choose to get vaccinated will be just fine after all with extremely low odds of getting something, right? I would say leave other people alone who decide to take a risk for whatever reason(s) as it's not the government's business or other busy bodies to decide.
If the illnesses only impacted those that chose not to vaccinate that would make sense. You get the disease because you chose to instead of vaccinating - trouble is there are vulnerable people that cannot be vaccinated who rely on healthy people getting vaccinated to not spread it.

The California legislation tries to the balance. You can choose not to vaccinate but it limits the risk you can impose on others. Perfect, nope. Perfect would be people read the science and do what's logical. In the absence of that, this strikes a balance.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,871 posts, read 102,248,055 times
Reputation: 32940
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I think that an education campaign and easier access for those who are under-vaccinated but wish to be better vaccinated. I feel like that is the best scenario as far as increasing vaccination rates. I think that people need to be free to choose. Education and ease of access are the best options for that. I also don't think the threat (measles outbreak) warrants the (over) reaction which is the legislation eliminating exemptions. In other words, the problem is not great enough to warrant such extreme measures. I think that the philosophical and the religious exemptions should have remained in place, along with the medical exemption.
Vaccine education programs may not work as hoped | Reuters
"Education campaigns that aim to inform people about the benefits of vaccines do little to increase the intent of parents to vaccinate their future children, according to a new study.

Furthermore, researchers found that among a group of parents who were least likely to vaccinate their future children, some education campaigns actually added to their reservations."


Training Doctors To Talk About Vaccines Fails To Sway Parents : Shots - Health News : NPR
"As more and more parents choose to skip vaccinations for their children, public health professionals and researchers have been looking at new ways to ease the concerns of parents who are hesitant.

But that turns out to be tough to do. Studies have found that simply educating parents about the safety and efficacy of vaccines doesn't increase the likelihood that they will get children vaccinated."


Debunking Vaccine Myths Can Have An Unintended Effect : Shots - Health News : NPR
Just about flu vaccine, but the principals can be generalized.

As far as "over-reaction" (a fave anti-vax phrase, BTW), here's something from Immunize Colorado to peruse:
How Quickly Would Measles Spread if Too Few People Were Vaccinated? - Observations - Scientific American Blog Network
 
Old 07-13-2015, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,871 posts, read 102,248,055 times
Reputation: 32940
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Just like the vaccine is not effective in some people, the actual disease is not effective in creating immunity in some people. I had Chicken Pox 25+ years ago (give or take a few years) yet 7 years ago my titers were still sky high (I had to prove it to work at the hospital).

Some people don't have great immune systems. Some people react differently to shots. It is a one-fits-all shot. There is no difference between the newborn Hep B shot and the adult version. If we compare that to, say, Ibuprofen... We would be negligent if we gave the adult dose of Ibuprofen to a newborn.
You missed the entire point of my post. Chickenpox is not always a mild disease. That was my point.

Actually, the newborn Hep B shot is 1/2 the dose of the adult vaccine.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 08:09 PM
 
9,567 posts, read 5,759,687 times
Reputation: 9631
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I would say leave things the way they are now in most states, a personal choice to vaccinate or not, and don't tie something like public school attendance to those who decide their kids shouldn't get vaccinated for whatever reason.

Each one of us is around people everyday who make risky choices in their lives that can potentially affect our health/well being yet we don't have sweeping legislation on those issues. And if vaccines are so effective as science and some people on this board seem to indicate they are, why are those who get vaccinated/get their kids vaccinated so uptight about what everyone else does/doesn't do? The vast majority who choose to get vaccinated will be just fine after all with extremely low odds of getting something, right? I would say leave other people alone who decide to take a risk for whatever reason(s) as it's not the government's business or other busy bodies to decide.
Well said. I agree.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 08:09 PM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
4,655 posts, read 2,509,482 times
Reputation: 9081
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I would say leave things the way they are now in most states, a personal choice to vaccinate or not, and don't tie something like public school attendance to those who decide their kids shouldn't get vaccinated for whatever reason.
I would say the opposite. If you want to avail yourself of all that is offered in public schools, get your child vaccinated. Period.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 08:10 PM
 
9,567 posts, read 5,759,687 times
Reputation: 9631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Vaccine education programs may not work as hoped | Reuters
"Education campaigns that aim to inform people about the benefits of vaccines do little to increase the intent of parents to vaccinate their future children, according to a new study.

Furthermore, researchers found that among a group of parents who were least likely to vaccinate their future children, some education campaigns actually added to their reservations."

Training Doctors To Talk About Vaccines Fails To Sway Parents : Shots - Health News : NPR
"As more and more parents choose to skip vaccinations for their children, public health professionals and researchers have been looking at new ways to ease the concerns of parents who are hesitant.

But that turns out to be tough to do. Studies have found that simply educating parents about the safety and efficacy of vaccines doesn't increase the likelihood that they will get children vaccinated."


Debunking Vaccine Myths Can Have An Unintended Effect : Shots - Health News : NPR
Just about flu vaccine, but the principals can be generalized.

As far as "over-reaction" (a fave anti-vax phrase, BTW), here's something from Immunize Colorado to peruse:
How Quickly Would Measles Spread if Too Few People Were Vaccinated? - Observations - Scientific American Blog Network
It is an over-reaction. I didn't know that word belonged to "anti-vaxxers.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,247 posts, read 28,053,071 times
Reputation: 28688
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
It's relevant. The bill reads:

"(b) The governing authority shall not unconditionally admit any person as a pupil of any private or public elementary or secondary school, child care center, day nursery, nursery school, family day care home, or development center, unless, prior to his or her first admission to that institution, he or she has been fully immunized. The following are the diseases for which immunizations shall be documented:
(1) Diphtheria.
(2) Haemophilus influenzae type b.
(3) Measles.
(4) Mumps.
(5) Pertussis (whooping cough).
(6) Poliomyelitis.
(7) Rubella.
(8) Tetanus.
(9) Hepatitis B.
(10) Varicella (chickenpox).
(11) Any other disease deemed appropriate by the department, taking into consideration the recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the United States Department of Health and Human Services, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Academy of Family Physicians."

and

"(e) The department may specify the immunizing agents that may be utilized and the manner in which immunizations are administered." https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201520160SB277

This opens the door for many interesting mandates with SB277 as precedence and public health as fuel. Not only that but if a person had any one of these diseases already, they would be forced to prove titer levels not just take the parent's word for it which would cost several hundred dollars.

Anyway, they are free to add as many vaccines as they wish and dictate how they are delivered.
And what does any of that have to do with creating a registry of people with HIV? Monitoring people's sexual practices? Requiring a license for parents? If the other poster wants to discuss those things, he can start his own thread. Vaccination mandates have been around ever since the smallpox vaccine was introduced. None of his slippery slope imaginings have come to pass.

Since there are already people who have lied about religious exemptions, I am not surprised that they do not want to take a parent's word. The anti-vax community has brought that on themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
It could indeed have everything to do with this vaccine legislation being enacted. It's in the same reasoning/logic why vaccine's are now mandated in CA to be able to attend public schools....to protect public health. If you can't understand that there's not a solid wall preventing other legislation in the name of "protecting the public health" to be passed and maybe, just maybe, now have greater odds of passing now that this vaccine legislation has passed, I can't help you. I think that's very naive thinking.

As for stating my examples in my previous post "will not come to pass", I have a feeling more than a few people said the same thing about this CA vaccine bill being passed some years ago.
As I said above: Vaccine mandates have been in existence for a long time (Massachusetts, 1855, for smallpox). None of your examples have come to pass. No one is going to make people with HIV register. The health department will continue to trace contacts of people with STDs. No one will have to get a license to become a parent (as good an idea as that might be). Vaccine mandates are about vaccines.

By the way, we are the government, through our elected representatives. If you are afraid that vaccine mandates will result in your need to be licensed to become a parent, write your state legislators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Also... As an example, say I was never vaccinated as a child. As an adult, the CDC recommends Flu shot annually, 1 Tdap dose, 2 Chicken pox doses, 3 HPV if you are female and under 27 (3 HPV if you are male, under 27, and at risk), 1 Shingles if you are over 60, 1 or 2 doses of MMR unless you are over 60, and the rest are only if you are at risk in your job/lifestyle (including Hep B). Now compare that to the 30 some doses our kids are required to get... WTF? At my age, I would only need 5-6 doses of 3 diseases (less 2 because I have had chicken pox and titer tests to prove it).

Adult Schedule: CDC - Vaccines - Adult Immunization Schedule, by Vaccine and Age Group

Kid Schedule: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedule...s-schedule.pdf

Hmmm?
http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4212.pdf
Tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis:

"For people who were never vaccinated or who may have started but not completed a series of shots,
a 3-dose series of Td should be given with 1 to 2 months between dose #1 and #2, and 6 to 12 months between dose #2 and #3. One of the doses, preferably the first, should also contain the pertussis component in the form of Tdap."

The anti-vax obsession with the number of vaccines is interesting. Why preventing more diseases rather than fewer is somehow bad escapes me.
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