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Old 07-13-2015, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
This is much deeper then just "vaccines". It's about the freedom to make health choices for ourselves and our children. It's about the freedom to control what we put into our bodies. Some want the state to take over that role, others do not.
However, your choice not to vaccinate can make someone else sick, including an infant too young to be vaccinated.

If your unvaccinated child gets a baby sick who would have been vaccinated at the appropriate time, your choice not to vaccinate your child has preempted that baby's parents' choice to vaccinate.

When you figure out a way to keep unvaccinated children from passing vaccine preventable disease to other families, let us know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Let's just vaccinate adults. It's a few shots not over 30. Why target kids when it is the adults that suffer the most from these "childhood" infectious diseases?
Because it is not adults who suffer most from those diseases. Wherever did you get that weird idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I agree. I also don't think that people who had the varicella vaccine will get shingles at a higher rate then those who had wild varicella when they are older. I think that their risk will be pretty much the same (vaccinated, unvaccinated but had chicken pox). It will be a very long time though before we know for sure how the varicella vaccine impacts shingles rates in older adults.
So far, the evidence is that shingles after the vaccine occurs at a lower rate than after the wild virus and is milder when it does happen, with less chance of permanent pain afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I would say leave things the way they are now in most states, a personal choice to vaccinate or not, and don't tie something like public school attendance to those who decide their kids shouldn't get vaccinated for whatever reason.

Each one of us is around people everyday who make risky choices in their lives that can potentially affect our health/well being yet we don't have sweeping legislation on those issues. And if vaccines are so effective as science and some people on this board seem to indicate they are, why are those who get vaccinated/get their kids vaccinated so uptight about what everyone else does/doesn't do? The vast majority who choose to get vaccinated will be just fine after all with extremely low odds of getting something, right? I would say leave other people alone who decide to take a risk for whatever reason(s) as it's not the government's business or other busy bodies to decide.
Because vaccines do not always work, there are babies too young to be vaccinated, and there are people with weakened immune systems who are vulnerable to these diseases even if they have been vaccinated, like the woman who recently died from measles here in the US.

Your choice not to vaccinate affects the rest of us. We've decided to take measures to reduce the risk not vaccinating creates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And what are the chances of eliminating Hep A or B? Or HPV? or the Flu?
Hepatitis A and B are potentially eradicable because they have no natural non-human hosts.

Influenza is not eradicable because it mutates so readily and has non-human reservoirs. That's why you see references to bird flu and swine flu.

Human papillomavirus is an interesting question. There is a fairly large number of strains, but with effort we could probably knock out those most commonly associated with cancer. By extension, that would mean eradicating a bunch of cancers, too, including cervical cancer.

https://www.g-o-c.org/uploads/11june_hpvtoday.pdf

 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
609 posts, read 598,212 times
Reputation: 770
Why don't we let the scientists and experts debate all this?
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:10 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,863 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric351982 View Post
Why don't we let the scientists and experts debate all this?
Agreed! And they have . The science is clear. Vaccinate your kids
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26461
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric351982 View Post
Why don't we let the scientists and experts debate all this?
Because for the scientists and experts there is nothing to debate. All the "controversy" is manufactured by the anti-vaccinationists.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:20 PM
 
Location: A place that's too cold
4,078 posts, read 4,050,157 times
Reputation: 10057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
This is something I was wondering about. Interesting graphic, but I wish it actually gave us some numbers. The first graphic was based on 80% vac rate, and we see a LOT of red dots (measles cases) as the epidemic spreads. I'd love to know what percent of the unvaccinated people got the measles.

I have wondered, if vac rates got low enough that outbreaks of disease became huge, at that point would any of you opponents of vac mandates feel differently? Or perhaps would you choose to keep your kids home from school (and all other public places) until the epidemic subsided? Would personally knowing children who died or had serious complications from one of these diseases affect how you proceeded with your own children? (In terms of, would you get them vaccinated, or just keep them away from all people outside of your own home, or just carry on as usual and take your chances?)
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:25 PM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
This is something I was wondering about. Interesting graphic, but I wish it actually gave us some numbers. The first graphic was based on 80% vac rate, and we see a LOT of red dots (measles cases) as the epidemic spreads. I'd love to know what percent of the unvaccinated people got the measles.

I have wondered, if vac rates got low enough that outbreaks of disease became huge, at that point would any of you opponents of vac mandates feel differently? Or perhaps would you choose to keep your kids home from school (and all other public places) until the epidemic subsided? Would personally knowing children who died or had serious complications from one of these diseases affect how you proceeded with your own children? (In terms of, would you get them vaccinated, or just keep them away from all people outside of your own home, or just carry on as usual and take your chances?)
Unvaccinated kids can't come to school if there is an outbreak. I don't have any problem with that rule.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
However, your choice not to vaccinate can make someone else sick, including an infant too young to be vaccinated.

If your unvaccinated child gets a baby sick who would have been vaccinated at the appropriate time, your choice not to vaccinate your child has preempted that baby's parents' choice to vaccinate.

When you figure out a way to keep unvaccinated children from passing vaccine preventable disease to other families, let us know.



Because it is not adults who suffer most from those diseases. Wherever did you get that weird idea?



So far, the evidence is that shingles after the vaccine occurs at a lower rate than after the wild virus and is milder when it does happen, with less chance of permanent pain afterwards.



Because vaccines do not always work, there are babies too young to be vaccinated, and there are people with weakened immune systems who are vulnerable to these diseases even if they have been vaccinated, like the woman who recently died from measles here in the US.

Your choice not to vaccinate affects the rest of us. We've decided to take measures to reduce the risk not vaccinating creates.



Hepatitis A and B are potentially eradicable because they have no natural non-human hosts.

Influenza is not eradicable because it mutates so readily and has non-human reservoirs. That's why you see references to bird flu and swine flu.

Human papillomavirus is an interesting question. There is a fairly large number of strains, but with effort we could probably knock out those most commonly associated with cancer. By extension, that would mean eradicating a bunch of cancers, too, including cervical cancer.

https://www.g-o-c.org/uploads/11june_hpvtoday.pdf
For the most part.. we are vaccinating against CHILDHOOD diseases. These are harmful to adults. Let the adults be the ones vaccinated then. HPV is so common that they cannot determine which (or if) a strain will cause cancer.

Let it go. Let it go...
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Unvaccinated kids can't come to school if there is an outbreak. I don't have any problem with that rule.
Exactly... if an outbreak occurs, the un or under vaccinated kids are sent home. So what's the problem?
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:36 PM
 
Location: A place that's too cold
4,078 posts, read 4,050,157 times
Reputation: 10057
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Unvaccinated kids can't come to school if there is an outbreak. I don't have any problem with that rule.
Ok, that makes sense. What about my other questions? I'm genuinely interested.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:40 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,863 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Exactly... if an outbreak occurs, the un or under vaccinated kids are sent home. So what's the problem?
Many of these diseases are contagious before they're symptomatic. Not a solution.
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