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Old 07-13-2015, 09:40 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,981 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I remember having chicken pox and it was not a big deal at all. In childhood it usually isn't. It's dangerous as people get older. Adults who have had chicken pox benefit from being exposed to children with chicken pox due to the immune boost that they gain which in turn help to suppress shingles outbreaks. Chicken pox vaccination is not routine everywhere.
Anti-vaxers always seem to get milder disease and assume it's like that for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
This is something I was wondering about. Interesting graphic, but I wish it actually gave us some numbers. The first graphic was based on 80% vac rate, and we see a LOT of red dots (measles cases) as the epidemic spreads. I'd love to know what percent of the unvaccinated people got the measles.

I have wondered, if vac rates got low enough that outbreaks of disease became huge, at that point would any of you opponents of vac mandates feel differently? Or perhaps would you choose to keep your kids home from school (and all other public places) until the epidemic subsided? Would personally knowing children who died or had serious complications from one of these diseases affect how you proceeded with your own children? (In terms of, would you get them vaccinated, or just keep them away from all people outside of your own home, or just carry on as usual and take your chances?)
Always something wrong with the info for anti-vaxers. Plenty of other info out there if you care to look for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Unvaccinated kids can't come to school if there is an outbreak. I don't have any problem with that rule.
But they can be Patient Zero in a school outbreak. And they're contagious for days before they have symptoms, four days with measles. Can spread a lot of measles in four days. Then they get diagnosed and all the other unvaxed have to stay home. Kind of like locking the barn door after the horse is out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Ok, that makes sense. What about my other questions? I'm genuinely interested.
No it doesn't make sense. See above.

 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,917,692 times
Reputation: 7700
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
If the illnesses only impacted those that chose not to vaccinate that would make sense. You get the disease because you chose to instead of vaccinating - trouble is there are vulnerable people that cannot be vaccinated who rely on healthy people getting vaccinated to not spread it.

The California legislation tries to the balance. You can choose not to vaccinate but it limits the risk you can impose on others. Perfect, nope. Perfect would be people read the science and do what's logical. In the absence of that, this strikes a balance.
But I can say the same for the flu as we all know how serious and deadly the flu can be to millions in this country. There are lots of vulnerable people out there who can get seriously ill or die from the flu, elderly, those with compromised immune systems, etc, that each one of us can pass on to them, in theory, because many of us have decided to not get the flu vaccine in a given year. Why don't some states or at the fed level require everyone to get the flu shot, let's say to attend school or use public space, if the true intent is to protect vulnerable people in the population, if protection of health is the true intention of these laws?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBayBoomer View Post
I would say the opposite. If you want to avail yourself of all that is offered in public schools, get your child vaccinated. Period.
And I trust you'd be for state or national flu vaccine law to be enforced on everyone for the above reasons I've mentioned? How far should this go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
By the way, we are the government, through our elected representatives. If you are afraid that vaccine mandates will result in your need to be licensed to become a parent, write your state legislators.
Certainly that's the way it should work. But given what I see as the overall bought off nature of politics/the influence of special interest these days on decision making, I don't see it working at all like the way our forefathers intended.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Ok, that makes sense. What about my other questions? I'm genuinely interested.
Can you repeat the questions? I may have missed them. This thread is huge.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Anti-vaxers always seem to get milder disease and assume it's like that for everyone.



Always something wrong with the info for anti-vaxers. Plenty of other info out there if you care to look for it.



But they can be Patient Zero in a school outbreak. And they're contagious for days before they have symptoms, four days with measles. Can spread a lot of measles in four days. Then they get diagnosed and all the other unvaxed have to stay home. Kind of like locking the barn door after the horse is out.



No it doesn't make sense. See above.
Just saying... LICE.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:47 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,981 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Just saying... LICE.
Are you serious?
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:47 PM
 
Location: A tropical island
4,566 posts, read 4,431,194 times
Reputation: 11210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Anti-vaxers always seem to get milder disease and assume it's like that for everyone.



Always something wrong with the info for anti-vaxers. Plenty of other info out there if you care to look for it.



But they can be Patient Zero in a school outbreak. And they're contagious for days before they have symptoms, four days with measles. Can spread a lot of measles in four days. Then they get diagnosed and all the other unvaxed have to stay home. Kind of like locking the barn door after the horse is out.



No it doesn't make sense. See above.
I'm confused by the bolded part, which was your response to one of my posts. You do realize I am absolutely not an anti-vaxxer, don't you?

Also, when I asked about keeping unvac kids home during an epidemic, Miss Terri said unvac kids would be required to stay home. I said that makes sense, as in, it makes sense that the school would have that policy.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Many of these diseases are contagious before they're symptomatic. Not a solution.
However, the unvaccinated are sent home. The outbreak occurs. Unvaccinated are sent home.... What is the problem. So what if they were contagious before they were symptomatic. The unvaccinated (or under vaccinated) cannot spread said disease because they are sent home.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:49 PM
 
Location: A tropical island
4,566 posts, read 4,431,194 times
Reputation: 11210
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Can you repeat the questions? I may have missed them. This thread is huge.
Sure thing:

I have wondered, if vac rates got low enough that outbreaks of disease became huge, at that point would any of you opponents of vac mandates feel differently? Or perhaps would you choose to keep your kids home from school (and all other public places) until the epidemic subsided? Would personally knowing children who died or had serious complications from one of these diseases affect how you proceeded with your own children? (In terms of, would you get them vaccinated, or just keep them away from all people outside of your own home, or just carry on as usual and take your chances?)
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,396 posts, read 28,226,906 times
Reputation: 28974
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
For the most part.. we are vaccinating against CHILDHOOD diseases. These are harmful to adults. Let the adults be the ones vaccinated then. HPV is so common that they cannot determine which (or if) a strain will cause cancer.
These diseases maim and kill children. They are so infectious that before vaccines, you caught them usually at a young age. Survivors were usually (but not always) immune, so adults did not catch the diseases very often.

Stop vaccinating children and these diseases will come back with a vengeance, and the victims will mostly be children.

By testing of tumor tissue for viral genetic material, the carcinogenic strains of HPV can and have been determined.
 
Old 07-13-2015, 09:52 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,981 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
I'm confused by the bolded part, which was your response to one of my posts. You do realize I am absolutely not an anti-vaxxer, don't you?

Also, when I asked about keeping unvac kids home during an epidemic, Miss Terri said unvac kids would be required to stay home. I said that makes sense, as in, it makes sense that the school would have that policy.
You seem pretty anti-vax to me. You don't like this law. Anti-vaxers always pick, pick, pick at the information. "It doesn't say this, it doesn't say that, it doesn't give 100% assurance the vaccine is safe, it doesn't prove that this will happen IRL", etc, etc, etc.

Did you see tlvancouver's and my response to MissTerri? Who do you think is getting sick for the most part with vaccine PREVENTABLE diseases? Hint: Not the vaccinated. Not even with pertussis, before all the AVs jump on their keyboards. So an unvaxed kid starts a measles outbreak in a school, infecting an untold number of other unvaxed kids, and then and only then do the unvaxed have to stay home. Measles is so contagious that 90% of non-immune people who are exposed will get sick.
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