U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-15-2015, 02:57 PM
 
8,545 posts, read 5,269,960 times
Reputation: 9115

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Fisher is convinced vaccines caused her child to be autistic. She has made a career out of insisting vaccines cause autism. They do not, but if she admits that, she's out of a job.
A lot of parents who had healthy children who were developing on target suddenly regress after a round of vaccinations believe that vaccines triggered their children's regression. I believe a lot of these parents are right. If the vaccine industry ever admits that there is a problem a lot of people will be out of jobs and a lot of money will be lost. Unfortunately the industry is heavily controlled from the journals to the studies they fund, etc. The truth will never come out because the gatekeepers won't allow that.

Quote:
We already know that people who do not vaccinate feel no ethical obligation to reduce the risk of harm to others, so such behavior would not be surprising, would it?
Well that's quite a stretch. I keep my kids home when they are sick or if I know they are contagious, I have had many "vaxxers' not do the same with their kids. It's so stupid that you actually go so far as to accuse people who may not vaccinate for everything on the schedule of not being ethical human beings. It's absurdly ridiculous.
Quote:
The amount of aluminum in vaccines is not toxic. You get more from food and water every day than from all the vaccines an individual will ever take. And no, getting it in a shot makes no difference. The same with all the other vaccine ingredients that ant-vaccinationists rail against, including formaldehyde.
Your claim was that there wee no toxins in vaccines. That is clearly false. I gave you one example that proved you wrong. Injected aluminum is different then ingested aluminum and while the amount in one does may or may not be harmful but when you take the cumulative dose from many vaccinations that could be different. Not everyone can process and eliminate toxins and heavy metals as efficiently and effectively as everyone else. Some people's bodies do not do a very good job at this and that is when the cumulative effect gets real.

It's so hard to respond when you do these wall of text responses to everyone all in one.

 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,796,958 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Jacobson v. Ma. 197 U.S. 11 (1905). That is how you cite case law, Mr. Attorney. This was used for the 1918 Flu Pandemic for government to force vaccinations.

It has not been used since because it set very strict criteria. Pandemic needed to be declared before government could force vaccinations (medical treatment) on the public for the public health.

NO Measles, Whooping Cough, etc., PANDEMIC had been declared. There was a Flu Pandemic declared in the US by the White House in 2009, but obviously the government decided NOT to enforce vaccinations on the public then, although under Case Law they could have. Why not? Because they would have met with FIERCE opposition from the public with that. I guess Obama did not want to touch that Hot Potato and force Flu Shots on everyone.







Quote:
In a case weighing the government’s ability to require vaccination against the individual right to refuse it, a federal judge has upheld a New York City policy that bars unimmunized children from public school when another student has a vaccine-preventable disease.
Citing a 109-year-old Supreme Court ruling that gives states broad power in public health matters, Judge William F. Kuntz II of Federal District Court in Brooklyn ruled against three families who claimed that their right to free exercise of religion was violated when their children were kept from school, sometimes for a month at a time, because of the city’s immunization policies.
The Supreme Court, Judge Kuntz wrote in his ruling, has “strongly suggested that religious objectors are not constitutionally exempt from vaccinations.”








http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/ny...ourt-says.html








The reality is that every time one of these anti-vaccination cases ends up in Federal Court, it gets batted down based on the same precedent. Courts across the country have repeatedly affirmed that you can be required to be vaccinated, particularly when it comes to schoolchildren, the precedent is that public health policy should be left up to lawmakers and the Courts have been reluctant to challenge any restrictions or requirements when it comes to vaccination. If the new California law is challenged in court, the results will be the same.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:01 PM
 
8,545 posts, read 5,269,960 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Yet you have gone on record as saying people wouldn't lie about a VAERS report to make money.
Show me that post. I don't believe I said that. I will say that I believe most VAERS reports are genuine and I'm doubtful that there are many people who just make up fake reports. I doubt anyone making a fake report is doing it to make money. I wouldn't be surprised if some do it to ruin the credibility of Vaers reports though. Maybe some "pro-vaxxers"
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:03 PM
 
8,545 posts, read 5,269,960 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes... Please. It's hard to respond to replies to my posts when it's all lumped together like that.
I'm thinking Suzy likes it that way. It makes it hard for anyone to refute her points when she does that. It's super annoying, that's for sure.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,390,644 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
The reality is that what you claim simply isn't true, one study that had to be translated from its native Chinese, that you can't even read in its original language, isn't proof of anything when other studies have not been able to replicate the same results. Vitamin C has been shown to have benefits in those who are immuno-compromised or in endurance athletes who engage in long, extreme bouts of exercise but it is far, far from the magic bullet that you are claiming. It is a supportive therapy at best, maybe it will help, maybe it won't, but its cheap enough that its worthwhile to try, I just wouldn't want my life to depend on it working.



Vitamin C for preventing and treating the common cold. - PubMed - NCBI
What about the language do you have a problem with? The translation somehow makes it an invalid study?
The studies you quote are not using mega-doses. 200mg is nothing.

These findings give plausibility to i.v. ascorbic acid in cancer treatment, and have unexpected implications for treatment of infections where H(2)O(2)

Effect of high dose vitamin C on Epstein-Barr viral infection. - PubMed - NCBI

"Conclusions The clinical study of ascorbic acid and EBV infection showed the reduction in EBV EA IgG and EBV VCA IgM antibody levels over time during IVC therapy that is consistent with observations from the literature that millimolar levels of ascorbate hinder viral infection and replication in vitro. "

The dose used in this study was 7.5 g to 50 g (yes grams) by IV.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,390,644 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Show me that post. I don't believe I said that. I will say that I believe most VAERS reports are genuine and I'm doubtful that there are many people who just make up fake reports. I doubt anyone making a fake report is doing it to make money. I wouldn't be surprised if some do it to ruin the credibility of Vaers reports though. Maybe some "pro-vaxxers"
Does sound more plausible. The whole set up of VAERS reporting makes it look like a big joke. No wonder people don't take the numbers seriously.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,796,958 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Show me that post. I don't believe I said that. I will say that I believe most VAERS reports are genuine and I'm doubtful that there are many people who just make up fake reports. I doubt anyone making a fake report is doing it to make money. I wouldn't be surprised if some do it to ruin the credibility of Vaers reports though. Maybe some "pro-vaxxers"

Except studies have been done that have shown correspondent increases in VAERS reports based on certain media events and publicity. Your doubts might be meaningful to you, but hard data means a lot more to me.


Of course it only makes sense that spikes in lawsuit-related claims went through the roof in the early 00's, the Godfather of the Anti-Vaxxer community himself, Andre Wakefield, received substantial sums of money from law firms who were seeking to cash in on a possible autism-vaccination link.




Quote:
This evidence comes in the form of a study by Michael J. Goodman and James Nordin published in the most recent issue of the journal Pediatrics, in which the authors examine the question of how much of the seeming increase in autism related to vaccines reported to the VAERS database over the last several years might be related to litigation. Naturally, I couldn’t resist downloading the complete article and reading it. In the study, the authors, did something incredibly simple that no one had done before. They took data from the VAERS database from 1990 through 2003 and imported it into SAS data files for analysis. Then they searched the database using key words to look for reports associated with litigation, particularly with regards to autism. They searched for records containing “thimerosal,” “mercury,” or “autism” in their fields, especially when coupled with terms like “lawyer,” “legal,” “attorney,” or “litigate,” while excluding records containing “legal” coupled with the term “guardian” that did not relate to litigation. They also excluded cases related to well characterized allergic reactions to thimerosal. Finally, they compared records from nonlitigation cases to those from litigation cases regarding symptomatology reported.
Not surprisingly, beginning in 2001, they noted a dramatic increase in the number of non-Lyme disease VAERS reports related to litigation, from only 7 in 2000 to 213 in 2002 and 108 in 2003. (They attributed the decline in 2003 reports to processing delays in creating public use files.) Next, they examined symptom sets related to symptom sets. For autism, they observed a dramatic increase in the percentage of litigation-related reports from 0% of the reports related to litigation in 1999 to over one-third (35%) in 2002. For records mentioning thimerosal that weren’t related to allergic reactions, the rise was even more dramatic, from 0% of these reports related to litigation in 2000 to 87% in 2002.




Sign In




Quote:


The findings raise an important question about possible misuse of VAERS in the litigation process. When a study is being used to influence important public health decisions, it is important that reviewers and editors fully understand how the data were constructed and their source. Until now, no one has described the magnitude of litigation-related reporting and how these reports might potentially change the results of studies using VAERS data. Longitudinal studies using VAERS data should explicitly take into account changes in reporting sources like the one described in this article.
It is impossible to determine the effect of these reports on existing analyses because the existing literature does not describe carefully inclusion and exclusion criteria. For the conditions reviewed here, it is apparent that a large enough percentage of reports are being made related to litigation that failure to exclude these will seriously skew trends. This is important for vaccines that contain thimerosal, and specifically for the MMR vaccine because of the controversy surrounding its relationship to autism. It therefore is incumbent on the authors who use VAERS data to provide detailed methods sections that describe their inclusion and exclusion criteria. To that end, we are making our SAS code available to interested parties. It is not sufficient simply to reference extraction of the VAERS data set.











VAERS is a starting point for researchers to look for signals, anyone can file a claim on the site, even if they are in another country and for that reason, the data is too unreliable to ever be taken at face value, which is why followups are conducted on cases that seem to be somewhat based in reality.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:12 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,505 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
A lot of parents who had healthy children who were developing on target suddenly regress after a round of vaccinations believe that vaccines triggered their children's regression. I believe a lot of these parents are right. If the vaccine industry ever admits that there is a problem a lot of people will be out of jobs and a lot of money will be lost. Unfortunately the industry is heavily controlled from the journals to the studies they fund, etc. The truth will never come out because the gatekeepers won't allow that.
Again, we get it you think "mommy feelings" trump science. What you "believe" is irrelevant when over a hundred peer reviewed studies prove you're wrong and not a single reputable study proves you're right. Vaccines DO NOT cause autism and DO prevent serious illness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Jacobson v. Ma. 197 U.S. 11 (1905). That is how you cite case law, Mr. Attorney. This was used for the 1918 Flu Pandemic for government to force vaccinations.
Thanks for the legal advice? Too bad it is irrelevant.

The government is not forcing vaccinations. No one (repeat NO ONE) is being forced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorsyGal View Post
Yes, there are many here who don't understand how important it is for us to keep this liberty, a liberty we've had for decades. The liberty to choose.
No matter what side you are on though there really aren't sides with so much gray in between. I must skeedadle off to work now
You have your freedom to choose whether to vaccinate your school age child or not. Find a new drum to pound.

If you choose not to vaccinate, you are also choosing to homeschool. Imagine the freedom you'll have - you can "choose" what to do every day and you won't have to worry about science confusing things.

I find it interesting that in defending "personal belief" exemptions on one hand, a couple of the anti-vax people on this forum clearly state that science is irrelevant. On what are "personal beliefs" founded if not science?
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:17 PM
 
8,545 posts, read 5,269,960 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Except studies have been done that have shown correspondent increases in VAERS reports based on certain media events and publicity. Your doubts might be meaningful to you, but hard data means a lot more to me.
There's also a major issue with underreporting. I suspect the reason why reports go up with media stories is because people are more inclined to report when the issues is raised. I know parents who's children had negative reactions to vaccinations. Some severe. They didn't report the incidents. It's common for people not to report or to assume that their doctor will report, etc.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 03:19 PM
 
8,545 posts, read 5,269,960 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Again, we get it you think "mommy feelings" trump science. What you "believe" is irrelevant when over a hundred peer reviewed studies prove you're wrong and not a single reputable study proves you're right. Vaccines DO NOT cause autism and DO prevent serious illness.
That's just rude and as usual, misses the point.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top