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Old 07-15-2015, 07:15 PM
 
25,829 posts, read 49,712,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
A "small number" of people, the minority, should not dictate rules that everyone must follow. Nothing is 100% in life we agree. And just like everyone who doesn't get the measles vaccine will get the measles. Its a 2 way street. Majority rules in our society.
Majority rules is no different than Mob Rules...

The United States is a Representative Democracy founded by it's Constitution... if this was not the case... how could a single judge or panel of judges overturn the will of the people???

 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
Reputation: 1690
For all of you who think vaccine injuries are fake or such a small number. Here is a law firm that lists 240 injuries, the injury, and the payout.

Read Actual Federal Vaccine Court Case Compensation Decisions

This is just one firm and these are not just "pain in the arm" cases. Nearly all are autoimmune diseases. Imagine that... a spiked (adjuvant aided) immune response from vaccination causes the body to attack itself.

Increased number of children with autoimmune diseases ISN'T from artificially stimulating the immune system?

Autoimmune Disease Rates Increasing - Medical News Today
 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:19 PM
 
25,829 posts, read 49,712,454 times
Reputation: 19277
... and X-rays were not dangerous or the cure is worse than the disease...

Anyone in medicine knows under perfect circumstances... medicine is recalled and errors made.

Weekly, I have to verify numerous medical recalls from devices, supplies and medicines... it is just a fact of life.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post



but they are going to stay in court on this for a long time.


No they won't. Precedent has long been established by the Supreme Court to defer to the Legislature on matters of vaccination. I'm sure some will file lawsuits, but just as in New York, they won't get anywhere other than those cool rallies and well-imagined signs comparing vaccination to people murdered in concentration camps.




Quote:
And a move to impeach Dr. Pan is already underway.
The reality is that whether a small minority likes it or not, the law is there to stay, it has the support of the politicians in the state, the general public and the medical establishment. They may get enough signatures to bring it up on the referendum but with the bill polling strongly in the state, it won't get anywhere.


But if some uber-wealthy folks want to tilt at windmills and help support local attorneys and the economy as a whole, well God bless their hearts.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:21 PM
 
8,308 posts, read 8,583,412 times
Reputation: 25929
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
For all of you who think vaccine injuries are fake or such a small number. Here is a law firm that lists 240 injuries, the injury, and the payout.

Read Actual Federal Vaccine Court Case Compensation Decisions

This is just one firm and these are not just "pain in the arm" cases. Nearly all are autoimmune diseases. Imagine that... a spiked (adjuvant aided) immune response from vaccination causes the body to attack itself.

Increased number of children with autoimmune diseases ISN'T from artificially stimulating the immune system?

Autoimmune Disease Rates Increasing - Medical News Today
Now, tell everyone the rest of the story. That's 240 cases over a five year period. Compare that with the millions of immunizations given every year.

I'd say getting immunized is one of the safest things a person can do. Its safer than driving to the clinic for a shot or taking the risk of being struck by lightning.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,575,371 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
But it is the majority who want all healthy children to be vaccinated.

We know that the failure rate for vaccines is small, but we do not know, on an individual level, who the people are for whom the vaccine did not work. One vaccine might not work for a particular person, or more than one, while another might fail for a different person, or more than one. Any of us might be the person for whom one of the vaccines did not work, and, short of getting titers done (expensive) most do not know a vaccine failed until they catch the disease.
Yes, and the majority wants sunshine and rainbows and lollipops and puppy dogs. A study, depending on how it's worded would say "yes....we want that, who wouldn't want healthy kids!". But word it "if you were told you wouldn't get into public school if you said no to vaccines", the "majority" might disappear rather quickly. And given the opposition you see on this thread, along with the pro-law, it's a small sample of course, but it shows more than a few people don't like this law.

And btw, the "majority" who believe in forced vaccines with strings attached isn't very large depending on what age group you look at:

Poll: Divide on vaccines about age, not politics | OnPolitics

Young adults more likely to say vaccinating kids should be a parental choice | Pew Research Center

The good news is the younger adults in our society seem to understand the importance of free choice with zero strings attached by gov mandates to protect a minority in matters like this while the older adults are more "tell me what to do government".

Perhaps there's some hope in the future after all on the importance of free choice.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,550,354 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
... and X-rays were not dangerous or the cure is worse than the disease...

Anyone in medicine knows under perfect circumstances... medicine is recalled and errors made.

Weekly, I have to verify numerous medical recalls from devices, supplies and medicines... it is just a fact of life.
Let's not forget Viox. Now they are putting new warnings on all NSAIDS. It happens, were human, even scientist are human. We run into a problem when we treat science like a God, and what they say as a bible verse. Most scientist agree, they didn't ask for it. Science is only as good as it last until proven wrong.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
A "small number" of people, the minority, should not dictate rules that everyone must follow. Nothing is 100% in life we agree. And just like everyone who doesn't get the measles vaccine will get the measles. Its a 2 way street. Majority rules in our society.
.


Exactly why this bill was just passed in California. If you haven't been paying attention, the majority of people across the country consistently support mandatory vaccination for kids in order for them to attend school. It cuts through ideological and economic lines, rather it is a small minority of anti-vaxxers making a lot of noise, trying to dictate to the majority what health policies should be in place.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:28 PM
 
25,829 posts, read 49,712,454 times
Reputation: 19277
Flying is suppose to be very safe... yet I know people that refuse to fly...

Again... it is only a Stat until it happens to a loved one.

And yes... the home school movement is alive and well... I am always surprised by the people I meet that were home schooled or home school and some of these are the same that earn early admission to prestigious universities...

I am not a Medical Doctor... I work with them and am surrounded by them and have them in the family... makes for interesting discussions.

It was the law that young men register for the draft and most did... some did not and others fled the country...

I am very interested in how the initiative turns out...

The pollsters said Governor Davis had no risk of being removed from office... well they were wrong!

As I have said several times... I do not have a blanket opposition to vaccinations...
 
Old 07-15-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,011 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Now, tell everyone the rest of the story. That's 240 cases over a five year period. Compare that with the millions of immunizations given every year.

I'd say getting immunized is one of the safest things a person can do. Its safer than driving to the clinic for a shot or taking the risk of being struck by lightning.

Over a hundred million vaccinations a year, roughly around 50 cases that are compensated for potential(more likely than not) vaccine related side effects, or a percent of a percent of a percent.
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