U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,803,010 times
Reputation: 6371

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
The California bill is more strict than any other vaccine mandates,

It is no more strict than those already in place in West Virginia and Mississippi, those states have the highest rates of vaccination in the U.S. and no epidemic of horror stories resulting from mandatory vaccination of schoolchildren.



Quote:
I can't honestly stay in a state that treats any minority of the population like this. This campaign has been ugly, and treated those who want a choice like idiots. It's appalled me and a lot of my friends. There were much better choices than mandates that could have been injected in my opinion, and I know plenty of people that have lost faith in this state and will fight to remove this bill. We have a lot of unique people in California, and acceptance of those made this a great state. It's not just the beach, and sea that draws our population.

You're free to go just like those who threatened to leave the state after gay marriage was legalized. Nothing is really stopping you from doing so if you feel so strongly about this. Just don't be shocked when similar laws and mandates start getting enacted in other states as a response to future outbreaks among the unvaccinated. The vaccine exemption being enacted was a huge mistake that is now being corrected, no more, no less.



Quote:
Berkeley is well known for standing on the side of the minority and fighting for compassion and understanding. Finding ways to appeal to everyone would have been like the California I was raised in. Other laws have passed, been confronted and appealed here. This isn't the first and it won't be the last.
To remove a philosophical exemption in this state won't be as easy to do or disappear quickly as an issue as you might think.
Actually I think it will be pretty easy because there is no great right that is being denied. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, homeschool them. Beyond that, support in the state is strong for the bill, the medical establishment is behind it, the legislation was written specifically to withstand court challenges, it isn't going anywhere. If it does wind up as a referendum, only then will the anti-vaxxer crowd see just how much others in the state oppose their position.



Quote:
Some of these vaccines should be left as a choice unless it's epidemic. And even then, I bet you people would be lining up on their own.
The whole point of vaccination is being proactive, prevention not reaction. I think the notion of having a massive run on vaccines due to an epidemic is ridiculous if it can be prevented in the first place.




Quote:
Most of us do vaccinate but want to dictate our own schedules and which vaccines we want. If your kids are not sexually active they don't need the hpv vaccine. When they become sexually active they can decide then to screen their partner and if they have it then get the vaccine. It's sexually transmitted. It shouldn't be given to junior high student with the presumption that they will all become sexually active. We aren't animals, nor numbers on a chart.
Why do you keep bringing up the HPV vaccine, you realize that the legislation does not include the HPV vaccine, nor can it simply be piggy-backed on to the law itself. The law itself is restricted to 10 particular vaccines, if in the future someone wishes to make other vaccines mandatory, they need to generate new legislation for that purpose.




Quote:
Those 10 vaccines include diphtheria, hepatitis B, hemophilus influenzae type b (commonly referred to as Hib), measles, mumps, pertussis, poliomyelitis, rubella, tetanus and varicella

The fear-mongering from the anti-vaxxers is far far worse than the legislation itself which is actually a pretty balanced, rational and pragmatic piece of legislation. Kids already in school are grandfathered in until 7th grade, kids in the 7th grade and beyond won't be subject to the new requirements at all.



Quote:
In a compromise, the authors agreed to limit the number of required vaccines to 10 to address critics' concerns of an ever-expanding list of shots. They also amended their bill to remove a requirement for schools to notify parents of immunization rates. That made it possible for SB277 to bypass the Senate Appropriations Committee.




But perhaps the most significant compromise was the authors' pledge to "grandfather in" many public and private school students whose parents have claimed personal belief exemptions. That would mean that more than 13,000 children who have had no vaccinations by first grade won't have to get their shots until they enter seventh grade. And nearly 10,000 seventh-graders who today aren't fully vaccinated may be able to avoid future shots because the state does not always require them after that grade.
Vaccine exemptions: California Senate overwhelmingly passes SB 277, abolishing most opt-outs - San Jose Mercury News

 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,803,010 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
You people use "snowflake" a lot. What exactly does this mean?


Actually I was adopting your language.


Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Their precious snowflake endured a few days or weeks of discomfort, survived and is now completely immune to the disease in the future. .
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,049 posts, read 98,999,163 times
Reputation: 31537
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And the risk of the disease is the same. A parent can assess their health and say with confidence that they are comfortable with the risk of the disease. That is choosing the risk of the disease. There are other benefits to having the disease. Lifelong immunity. So not only do parents assess the risks but also the rewards. Their precious snowflake endured a few days or weeks of discomfort, survived and is now completely immune to the disease in the future.

That is like taking the risk to drive a tank or just your average Honda. IDK.. maybe the risk of getting in the tank is greater but the reward is also greater. Parents make these type of decisions every single day and every moment of the day. How are others to say their choice is wrong?

I bet... no stats to back this up... that most unvaccinated kids have been exposed to the disease and are immune. Other than polio and hep B... this could be plausible.
That's about as plausible as smallpox being a trivial disease. I guess if you believe that, you'll believe anything! Few kids have the opportunity to catch diphtheria, tetanus, polio(as you mentioned), measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox these days. Pertussis, maybe, probably not unless your kid has had a major, and I mean major (more major than your image of smallpox disease) cough disease, maybe Hib since it's everywhere and prior to the vaccine almost all kids were thought to have had some form of Hib disease by age 5 (hopefully not Hib meningitis), maybe some forms of pneumococcal disease for similar reasons, maybe rotavirus. Probably not Hepatitis A, because you generally know that you have that.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:26 PM
 
25,899 posts, read 49,860,138 times
Reputation: 19346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
There is a risk to everything, you could be driving your kids to school and get blindsided by a truck running a red light. There are no guarantees to anything that we do which is why I find so many of the anti-vaxxers so amusingly irrational.


"You can't promise me that this is 100% safe and 100% effective, well scr*w you jack!"



Life is full of risk, anything you take, anywhere you go, presents its own set of risks, vaccinating against diseases such as measles greatly reduces the risk of anyone being infected with those diseases. They can be eliminated, much as we eliminated smallpox but it requires all people to work together, to cooperate, that is the essence of public health, the system only works when everyone buys in.
Unless the US can control the world... all of us working together only represents a small percent of the world population...

When the medical community raised concerns about immigrants and disease it was dismissed as xenophobic...
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,049 posts, read 98,999,163 times
Reputation: 31537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Unless the US can control the world... all of us working together only represents a small percent of the world population...

When the medical community raised concerns about immigrants and disease it was dismissed as xenophobic...
Most immigrants from central and South America are vaccinated, in some cases at a higher level than in some schools in California. Actually, the western hemisphere is in pretty good shape. There is no indigenous polio in the western, little measles. (Cue Jo48 to tell me I'm wrong.)
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Mt Shasta , Ca.
1,810 posts, read 1,251,121 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by J24 View Post
100000% for. Putting other children at risk simply because you can't do research and are trying to be hip is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated because they think they know better than medical professionals and HISTORY are idiots.
I agree , even my last teen at home is REALLY griping at me to get her Meningitis shots . She doesn't want to go like that and there have been a few in the region .

Also my profession is in the equine industry and suddenly after 50 years no one wants their horse vaccinated which is ridiculous , We travel extensively with these animals and we are having several outbreaks of various diseases in the PNW that do have vaccs for . Ludicrous, my personal horse are vaccinated to the hilt .
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,593,529 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
There is a risk to everything, you could be driving your kids to school and get blindsided by a truck running a red light. There are no guarantees to anything that we do which is why I find so many of the anti-vaxxers so amusingly irrational.


"You can't promise me that this is 100% safe and 100% effective, well scr*w you jack!"



Life is full of risk, anything you take, anywhere you go, presents its own set of risks, vaccinating against diseases such as measles greatly reduces the risk of anyone being infected with those diseases. They can be eliminated, much as we eliminated smallpox but it requires all people to work together, to cooperate, that is the essence of public health, the system only works when everyone buys in.
Well, yes, nothing is 100% safe and effective, agreed.

Case and point. The CDC said the measles outbreak at Disneyland was from an overseas source:

Disney Measles Outbreak Came From Overseas, CDC Says - NBC News

And no one died from the outbreak. And those who caught it, most of them were probably unvaccinated I would guess.

Using your idea of "requires all people to work together" which is the "essence of public health" and feel the CA law is a good idea, I'm guessing you are for banning people from countries from using some/all of our public spaces that don't vaccinate, just like the CA law bans kids in CA from attending public schools? Banning people from certain public spaces seems valid using that same logic. After all, according to the CDC, the source of the measles outbreak was someone from overseas. As I'm told even those that vaccinate, can't vaccinate, have compromised immune systems should be protected in our society so this would seem like a valid law that should be passed, right? How far should we take this is the bigger question, all in the name of making the "system" work when "everyone buys in"?
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,803,010 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Unless the US can control the world... all of us working together only represents a small percent of the world population...

When the medical community raised concerns about immigrants and disease it was dismissed as xenophobic...

Many of the immigrants coming here are vaccinated at higher rates than in many places in the U.S.


One of the most commonly supported transmission routes for diseases such as measles in the U.S. is an unvaccinated American traveling abroad and then bringing the disease back home with them.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,567,345 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
It is no more strict than those already in place in West Virginia and Mississippi, those states have the highest rates of vaccination in the U.S. and no epidemic of horror stories resulting from mandatory vaccination of schoolchildren.


It was stricter, and change after lawyers revised it.



You're free to go just like those who threatened to leave the state after gay marriage was legalized. Nothing is really stopping you from doing so if you feel so strongly about this. Just don't be shocked when similar laws and mandates start getting enacted in other states as a response to future outbreaks among the unvaccinated. The vaccine exemption being enacted was a huge mistake that is now being corrected, no more, no less.

Let us not forget that the California band on same sex marriage came first. The people were not happy about it and it's now eliminated.


Actually I think it will be pretty easy because there is no great right that is being denied. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, homeschool them. Beyond that, support in the state is strong for the bill, the medical establishment is behind it, the legislation was written specifically to withstand court challenges, it isn't going anywhere. If it does wind up as a referendum, only then will the anti-vaxxer crowd see just how much others in the state oppose their position.


A free public education is being denied. And soon to be on the chopping block employment. I'm not an anti vaxxer and I'm not opposing their position to have a choice.

The whole point of vaccination is being proactive, prevention not reaction. I think the notion of having a massive run on vaccines due to an epidemic is ridiculous if it can be prevented in the first place.


Proactive is education, mandates are threatening. You can't prevent outbreaks with mandates.


Why do you keep bringing up the HPV vaccine, you realize that the legislation does not include the HPV vaccine, nor can it simply be piggy-backed on to the law itself. The law itself is restricted to 10 particular vaccines, if in the future someone wishes to make other vaccines mandatory, they need to generate new legislation for that purpose.


I'm glad to see part of the deal was to eliminate the hpv vaccine. It was on the original bill.




The fear-mongering from the anti-vaxxers is far far worse than the legislation itself which is actually a pretty balanced, rational and pragmatic piece of legislation. Kids already in school are grandfathered in until 7th grade, kids in the 7th grade and beyond won't be subject to the new requirements at all.

I find nothing about future children being denied a public education balanced. Far from it. Fear mongering from those who oppose vaccines in totality had no influence on wanting my rights to chose.




Vaccine exemptions: California Senate overwhelmingly passes SB 277, abolishing most opt-outs - San Jose Mercury News
Things can change as see with the denial of gay marriage. We will have to wait and see how it plays out.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,803,010 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Well, yes, nothing is 100% safe and effective, agreed.

Case and point. The CDC said the measles outbreak at Disneyland was from an overseas source:

Disney Measles Outbreak Came From Overseas, CDC Says - NBC News

And no one died from the outbreak. And those who caught it, most of them were probably unvaccinated I would guess.
?

As your article mentions, the overseas source could have very well been an unvaccinated American traveling overseas as has been the case in other outbreaks of measles. You're not going to prevent every single infection but when you vaccinate as many healthy people as possible, you prevent diseases from abroad from making a foothold here in the U.S., from finding reservoirs where it can spread further from.



Among the people who were infected in that outbreak were several infants that never had a chance to be immunized, that is the issue when it comes to vaccination, you will always have a portion of the population, whether newborns, the immuno-compromised, people with cancer and others that depend on the protection of the "herd" to help prevent them from being infected, people who are far more susceptible to severe complications as a result of infection.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top