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Old 07-15-2015, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,579,621 times
Reputation: 7421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Actually I was adopting your language.
My name isn't quoted. I've never used snowflake. Can you answer the question? Or is your answer, "I was copying someone?"

 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,579,621 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Well, yes, nothing is 100% safe and effective, agreed.

Case and point. The CDC said the measles outbreak at Disneyland was from an overseas source:

Disney Measles Outbreak Came From Overseas, CDC Says - NBC News

And no one died from the outbreak. And those who caught it, most of them were probably unvaccinated I would guess.

Using your idea of "requires all people to work together" which is the "essence of public health" and feel the CA law is a good idea, I'm guessing you are for banning people from countries from using some/all of our public spaces that don't vaccinate, just like the CA law bans kids in CA from attending public schools? Banning people from certain public spaces seems valid using that same logic. After all, according to the CDC, the source of the measles outbreak was someone from overseas. As I'm told even those that vaccinate, can't vaccinate, have compromised immune systems should be protected in our society so this would seem like a valid law that should be passed, right? How far should we take this is the bigger question, all in the name of making the "system" work when "everyone buys in"?
And most of those affected were adults.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,605,366 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Many of the immigrants coming here are vaccinated at higher rates than in many places in the U.S.


One of the most commonly supported transmission routes for diseases such as measles in the U.S. is an unvaccinated American traveling abroad and then bringing the disease back home with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Most immigrants from central and South America are vaccinated, in some cases at a higher level than in some schools in California. Actually, the western hemisphere is in pretty good shape. There is no indigenous polio in the western, little measles. (Cue Jo48 to tell me I'm wrong.)

False. Lots of outbreaks overseas in the neighborhood of 20 million cases a year, and that's just for measles. And measles can come into our country easily through people visiting/leaving our country and bringing it back:

Disney Measles Outbreak Came From Overseas, CDC Says - NBC News

""Measles can come into our country easily through visitors or when Americans travel abroad and bring it back," Schuchat said. "


"Measles is still common around the world and we estimate there are around 20 million cases a year," Schuchat added."

Given the pro stance by many on this CA law, it should be a slam dunk to do what's right for the public good and we need to get serious about this. Are you all for starting to ban people going out and going in to our country/certain countries? How far should we go with this given many feel CA law is such a good thing? Seems given the number of cases overseas and how easy it is to bring back/forth, an overseas travel ban/limiting should be far above the priority of just what the CA law covers as it would do much more good just by looking at the numbers in preventing things like measles, protecting public health which is the prime goal. Let's get real about public health. Science. Facts.

Last edited by stevek64; 07-15-2015 at 11:17 PM..
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,809,795 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
My name isn't quoted. I've never used snowflake. Can you answer the question? Or is your answer, "I was copying someone?"

Sorry, I was adopting the previous poster's lingo.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
And if your decision to not vaccinate your precious snowflake only affected the aforementioned precious snowflake, I'd be right on board with it, but your little snowflake has to attend school with all kinds of other kids, including those that for legitimate medical reasons cannot be vaccinated and often at higher risk for serious complications from a disease such as measles.


These kids have a right to attend school as much as anyone else so in a rational society, we split the difference and say that if your precious snowflake has no medical condition prohibiting vaccination, to go ahead and vaccinate them and that way everyone is protected.


Its the scientifically sound, rational and common sense approach, something I predict that we'll be seeing more of in response to inevitable outbreaks of that were pretty much eradicated one to two decades ago.
If my snowflake child attends school then they are just a snowflake child attending school. They don't have any diseases. If they do get exposed then they have a chance of catching it. How is that a threat to the vaccinated?
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,605,366 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
And most of those affected were adults.
Good point. See, we need laws to protect adults now. C'mon, let's get with it people! Public Health! Science!
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:08 PM
 
25,910 posts, read 49,946,052 times
Reputation: 19383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Many of the immigrants coming here are vaccinated at higher rates than in many places in the U.S.


One of the most commonly supported transmission routes for diseases such as measles in the U.S. is an unvaccinated American traveling abroad and then bringing the disease back home with them.
The influx of 70,000 unaccompanied minors coming into the US in 2014 was the subject of several lengthy discussions regarding the Hospital's infectious disease protocols...

70,000 Kids Will Show Up Alone at Our Border This Year. What Happens to Them? | Mother Jones
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
That's about as plausible as smallpox being a trivial disease. I guess if you believe that, you'll believe anything! Few kids have the opportunity to catch diphtheria, tetanus, polio(as you mentioned), measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox these days. Pertussis, maybe, probably not unless your kid has had a major, and I mean major (more major than your image of smallpox disease) cough disease, maybe Hib since it's everywhere and prior to the vaccine almost all kids were thought to have had some form of Hib disease by age 5 (hopefully not Hib meningitis), maybe some forms of pneumococcal disease for similar reasons, maybe rotavirus. Probably not Hepatitis A, because you generally know that you have that.
I'm actually upset that I cannot come in contact with these childhood diseases. I need the booster. If I can't, as a person who experienced chicken pox, come in contact with a child with chicken pox then I am more likely to have shingles.

Chicken pox vaccine associated with shingles epidemic

I've been exposed to all of these diseases yet have I been symptomatic... NO. Why? They are so contagious yet I have not been infected. Is it the red wine I drink every once in a while or is it the nutritional diet I adhere to? Why is it that I can be exposed as an unvaccinated person yet not get the disease?
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,809,795 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
False. Lots of outbreaks overseas in the neighborhood of 20 million cases a year, and that's just for measles. And measles can come into our country easily through people visiting/leaving our country and bringing it back:

Disney Measles Outbreak Came From Overseas, CDC Says - NBC News

""Measles can come into our country easily through visitors or when Americans travel abroad and bring it back," Schuchat said. "


"Measles is still common around the world and we estimate there are around 20 million cases a year," Schuchat added."

Given the pro stance my many on this CA law, it should be a slam dunk to do what's right for the public good and we need to get serious about this. Are you all for starting to ban people going out and going in to our country/certain countries? Let's get real about public health. Science. Facts.

What is false, that unvaccinated Americans have brought back measles to the U.S? Most recent measles outbreaks have been linked specifically to unvaccinated Americans going abroad. Rather than banning people from travel, why not support smart vaccination policy, had these individuals been properly vaccinated, they would not have brought measles back with them.



Quote:
A measles outbreak in Minnesota offers a case study of how the disease is transmitted in the United States today: An unvaccinated person travels abroad, brings measles back and infects vulnerable people -- including children who are unprotected because their parents chose not to vaccinate them.
That's the conclusion of a report published online June 9 in Pediatrics that details the 2011 outbreak that sickened 19 children and two adults in the state.
It began when an unvaccinated 2-year-old was taken to Kenya, where he contracted the measles virus. After returning to the United States, the child developed a fever, cough and vomiting. However, before measles was diagnosed, he passed the virus on to three children in a drop-in child care center and another household member. Contacts then multiplied, with more than 3,000 people eventually exposed.
Nine of the children ultimately infected were old enough to have received the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine but had not.
In most of those cases, the child's parents feared the MMR vaccine could cause autism, according to researchers at the Minnesota Department of Health.
How one unvaccinated child sparked Minnesota measles outbreak - CBS News










Quote:

Last year's outbreaks in Ohio, Washington state, New York, Nebraska and San Diego have all been linked to unvaccinated Americans traveling to measles hot spots. The virus in many of the recent measles cases in California is genetically the same as the one that Philippine health authorities have struggled to control since Typhoon Haiyan struck in late 2013.
The measles outbreaks that matter the most aren't happening here - LA Times






Quote:





But in the first half of 2014 alone, there were 288 cases. And nearly all of them, the CDC researchers wrote in findings published last June, stemmed from Americans traveling abroad and returning with the disease.
"Of the 288 cases, 280 (97 percent) were associated with importations from at least 18 countries," they wrote. Many of these travelers were coming back from the Philippines, which has been dealing with a massive outbreak since fall 2013.
How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak - Vox











Quote:
In the Ohio case, "patient zero" had traveled to the Philippines on a missionary trip. (In case you were wondering, he took a plane. Miller explained, "Some Amish fly. Some don't.") At the time, the Philippines happened to be facing a massive measles outbreak, with tens of thousands of cases.

When he returned to Ohio, and fell ill, a doctor misdiagnosed him with Dengue fever, so he continued to pass his disease along to friends and neighbors, many of whom had refused the vaccine out of those concerns over adverse effects.

Fletcher describes it as a "perfect storm:" an unimmunized traveler going to a place with an outbreak and bringing an infectious disease back to an unprotected community.

Measles is one of the most contagious viruses ever discovered. In most cases, it's not deadly, but it's almost always debilitating, bringing on a weeks-long fever, rash, and painful, watery eyes. Up to forty percent of people experience serious complications, such as pneumonia and encephalitis (or swelling of the brain). One or two children in 1,000 die.

The most remarkable thing about the virus, however, is that it's incredibly indestructible. A person with measles can cough in a room, leave, and — if you were unvaccinated — hours later, you can catch the virus from the droplets in the air that they left behind. No other virus can do that. It also lives on surfaces for hours, finding new hosts in the unimmunized.
"Measles is very contagious, so once [the Ohio missionary] felt better, he went to church, and the church was in somebody's house," Fletcher says. "The majority of those first cases, we linked back to him. They had all attended church in that house."

Quote:

CDC's Seward says: "The people getting measles are those that travel abroad, come back, and live in a community among people who weren't vaccinated."

That measles still widely exists in the rest of the world is not a shock, but if enough of the population is vaccinated, it simply won't be able to spread in the U.S. As vaccination rates have gone down, we have been seeing more and more cases of measles in this country after not having a single one for well over a year in the early 2000's. We know that it can be stopped, we know that we can largely eliminate these infections but only if vaccination is given the high priority as it once was. There is no need for a ban, just following common sense vaccination principles, applying science instead of conspiracy theory.
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
My name isn't quoted. I've never used snowflake. Can you answer the question? Or is your answer, "I was copying someone?"
I used the "snowflake" because it is a common way for pro-vaccine to address anti-vaxxer kids. I used it as a sarcastic form for discussion.
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