U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:47 PM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,313,328 times
Reputation: 20438

Advertisements

I don't even have a proof of vaccine/immunization record since birth... of course I had vaccinations for school and remember others like German measles... etc..

Healthcare growing up meant going to the doctor and paying for the service... we did not have a health plan or health insurance... I never had a blood test or type until I gave blood recently.

When our family doctor retired... the records were to be transferred to another doctor... well... somewhere along the line... they were lost... later it made it difficult when I was shopping for health insurance... just to show how complicated it can get.

Longevity runs in my family... basically, we work until we can't and die... Grandparents ran a small family dairy farm that was green before the term was used... worked everyday... as in 7 days a week when one has milk cows and lived well into their 90's and the kids were born at home... no hospitals.

I guess it is amazing anyone survived and thrived looking back.

 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,926,686 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Yet the Courts don't agree with your sentiment. Unless you're arguing for a system of complete anarchy, when it comes to public health, as the Courts have repeatedly found, we are all required to participate.

All this law is doing is returning California to what was the norm at the time before the ill-fated "personal exemptions" were enacted, nor should they ever have existed. Don't want to vaccinate your kid, home-school them. Don't want to home-school them, get them vaccinated. People have choices, they just need to put on their big boy and big girl pants and make an adult decision on which way is the best for their family, inaction or simply "hiding in the herd" is no longer an option.

I'd agree with you if the risk was THEIRS and THEIRS alone, but unfortunately when someone chooses not to vaccinate their child and their child comes down with a disease that spreads to infants and others who cannot be vaccinated for one reason or another, it is no longer THEIR risk to bear, they've now spread the risk to people who never signed up for it.
Then we are back to my point of banning unvaccinated people coming in from other countries as they throw just as much risk into the equation as an unvaccinated kid in a CA school. The courts should certainly agree with this as it's in the best interest of public health. It applies directly to your statement:

"but unfortunately when someone chooses not to vaccinate their child and their child comes down with a disease that spreads to infants and others who cannot be vaccinated for one reason or another, it is no longer THEIR risk to bear, they've now spread the risk to people who never signed up for it. "

And again, we have proof at Disneyland of what an overseas person brought over, even to vaccinated people, and the point you've made above....we don't want those people who cannot be vaccinated for one reason or another, their risk to has turned to....you know the rest.

And we are back to just letting the snowball roll and let gov handle many of our health health decisions that impact everyone else that are now individual choice. For example, we should make flu shots required for everyone given how deadly the flu can be and how far/rapidly it can spread. I think that's follows in line with the CA law and its intent. I can go on and on with this Pandora's box. While I don't believe with this way of thinking, I always believe in not being half a**ed in an approach that I believe in. If one says they are for "protecting public health/others", and believe in "X" approach, do it right. If we really believe the end goal is public health, I assume you would be all for mandatory flu shots, even though of course the effectiveness varies from year to year but hey, any protection is better than none at all given how deadly the flu is to many and the gov should require it, right?
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,949,969 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post

I guess it is amazing anyone survived and thrived looking back.


How many didn't survive to thrive.......how many ended up with permanent disabilities or other lifelong medical concerns resulting from a childhood illness, how much time did people miss from work or school fighting off diseases that we can now prevent entirely.


The writer Roald Dahl's daughter is one that died of complications from measles, who knows how well she may have thrived, unfortunately the disease cut her down before she ever had a chance, leading to her father being a strong proponent of vaccination for the rest of his days.



Quote:
Roald Dahl on Olivia, writing in 1986

"MEASLES: A dangerous illness.

Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn't do anything.




'Are you feeling all right?' I asked her.




'I feel all sleepy,' she said.




In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.






The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.


November 1962 - death of Roald Dahl's daughter Olivia
 
Old 07-15-2015, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,949,969 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Then we are back to my point of banning unvaccinated people coming in from other countries as they throw just as much risk into the equation as an unvaccinated kid in a CA school.



No we are back to you arguing over treating a hangnail versus treating a gaping head wound. I'm all for putting the hangnail on the backburner, you insist that it gets equivalent treatment.


Get people vaccinated up to appropriate levels, you develop herd immunity to a high enough level that the odds of disease transmission goes down substantially. In the year 2000, the U.S. with higher overall vaccination levels didn't have a single recorded case. As mentioned before, Mississippi and West Virginia have the strictest standards on vaccination and neither of those states have had a Measles case in over 20 years. In those states, where 99% of the population is vaccinated, you could dump Measles infected individuals by the hundreds and the disease would still not be able to spread as transmission would be cut off rapidly.



Its really not as complicated as you appear to want to make it seem. Make vaccination mandatory other than for legitimate medical reasons, stick with that policy and these diseases will go back to being a non-factor.



 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,926,686 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
How many didn't survive to thrive.......how many ended up with permanent disabilities or other lifelong medical concerns resulting from a childhood illness, how much time did people miss from work or school fighting off diseases that we can now prevent entirely.
But we sure are making up for it all with our diet/lifestyle causing lots of death, pain, and suffering with cancer, heart "disease", diabetes, etc. The "modern way" of disabilities and lifelong serious debilitating medial issues, largely of mankind's own making with the tools of the trade.....knife, fork, spoon, and the couch.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,425 posts, read 28,280,822 times
Reputation: 29014
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Especially given CA already has a large participation rate in vaccinations anyways, I think this law is silly/overreaching.
As Juram pointed out, the problem is pockets with high rates of vaccine refusal, not the overall state rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I know several here also... they are willing to retire if it comes to it... and many, I'm sure, will say good.

It's not that they have never had the vaccine... it's that they had bad reactions and just reading the label gives possible adverse effects.

Several of our nurses 3 years ago rolled up their sleeves like everyone else... the next day they all had arms that were red and swollen... we were told NOT to use anymore vaccine from that lot and later learned there was a problem with that lot...

So much for blind faith.

Since... two have refused the flu vaccine and they wear masks the entire flue seasons which frightens some patients into thinking the nurses are ill.
What kind of "problem with the lot"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I guess it is amazing anyone survived and thrived looking back.
A lot of them did not survive. Go to any old cemetery and look at the little graves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
But we sure are making up for it all with our diet/lifestyle causing lots of death, pain, and suffering with cancer, heart "disease", diabetes, etc. The "modern way" of disabilities and lifelong serious debilitating medial issues, largely of mankind's own making with the tools of the trade.....knife, fork, spoon, and the couch.
All those are serious issues. That does not mean we should not use school mandates to get vaccination rates back up.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,949,969 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
But we sure are making up for it all with our diet/lifestyle causing lots of death, pain, and suffering with cancer, heart "disease", diabetes, etc. The "modern way" of disabilities and lifelong serious debilitating medial issues, largely of mankind's own making with the tools of the trade.....knife, fork, spoon, and the couch.


Complete non sequitur.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,926,686 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
No we are back to you arguing over treating a hangnail versus treating a gaping head wound. I'm all for putting the hangnail on the backburner, you insist that it gets equivalent treatment.


Get people vaccinated up to appropriate levels, you develop herd immunity to a high enough level that the odds of disease transmission goes down substantially. As mentioned before, Mississippi and West Virginia have the strictest standards on vaccination and neither of those states have had a Measles case in over 20 years. In the year 2000, the U.S. with higher overall vaccination levels didn't have a single recorded case.



Its really not as complicated as you appear to want to make it seem. Make vaccination mandatory other than for legitimate medical reasons, stick with that policy and these diseases will go back to being a non-factor.


I'm just hinging on the fact that you say 2 different things.....

Side 1.) unvaccinated CA kids, bad....effects others, especially the vulnerable who can't get vaccinated. CA law great as it gets vaccine rates up.

Side 2.) Unvaccinated kids/adults from other countries flying spending time amongst us, causing documented outbreaks like at Disneyland, eh...."hangnail"....don't worry about it. The vulnerable who can't get vaccinated when they exposed to these foreign unvaccinated travelers?....eh, another "hangnail". Don't worry about them in this case, even though they are unvaccinated people capable of spreading things like they did in Disney just as much as unvaccinated people cause issue with a law that you agree with. But.....create a law to ban these unvaccinated people from other countries flying in constantly who already caused an outbreak in Disneyland according to the CDC ? Not needed.

.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,926,686 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Complete non sequitur.
Just a little social commentary banking off your point of "everything is getting better" point with human health in regards to vaccines, hence the smile. One step forward, Eight steps back kind of thing. Global analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
As Juram pointed out, the problem is pockets with high rates of vaccine refusal, not the overall state rate.
My point was made in a larger context.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:16 AM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,313,328 times
Reputation: 20438
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
As Juram pointed out, the problem is pockets with high rates of vaccine refusal, not the overall state rate.



What kind of "problem with the lot"?


A lot of them did not survive. Go to any old cemetery and look at the little graves.



All those are serious issues. That does not mean we should not use school mandates to get vaccination rates back up.
The report said the lot was contaminated... and we were instructed to return it if not already destroyed.

Mom's aunt had polio as a child and could never walk... she was a favorite of ours because she always had time for us kids and loved talking with us... always remember her having a radio all the time... she was always informed.

My best friend in grade school went up for a rebound at basketball practice and hit heads with another friend of mine... he did not feel well and it was the end of practice... he died that night in bed at 9 years old...

My uncle died in the line of duty as a Deputy Sheriff...

I have said many times that I am not for banning vaccinations... I do think heavy handed edicts are becoming the easy way way out instead of education and public awareness campaigns...

Without informed consent... there can be no consent.

Too many people I see don't have the slightest clue other than the Doctor or Nurse "Said" and this is very troubling...

Even at my own place of employment I was summoned to the break room and told to roll up my sleeve... and I dared question why... the charge nurse didn't even have the handout available for me to read... and this is in a hospital...

I was told I was the first to ask and then the only question I asked after... about the preservative used drew a blank stare...

I don't drink, smoke or have any prescription meds... I'm careful what I eat... so why shouldn't I want to know what someone wants to inject into my body?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:36 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top