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Old 07-16-2015, 08:15 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,086 posts, read 9,859,108 times
Reputation: 22739

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I was not aware that there was a specific "right to a public education" in the Constitution. But I am aware that the Constitution says that the government should promote “the general welfare”. The Constitution says NOTHING about education. The point being, don't just pick and choose which "constitutional rights" you have.
The right to public education is guaranteed by each state's constitution, not the U.S. Constitution. Here is the specific wording in Article Nine, Section Two of the Colorado Constitution...

Quote:
Establishment and maintenance of public schools. The general assembly shall, as soon as practicable, provide for the establishment and maintenance of a thorough and uniform system of free public schools throughout the state, wherein all residents of the state, between the ages of six and twenty-one years, may be educated gratuitously. One or more public schools shall be maintained in each school district within the state, at least three months in each year; any school district failing to have such school shall not be entitled to receive any portion of the school fund for that year.
You'll find something similar in all fifty state constitutions.

 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:19 AM
 
9,188 posts, read 9,267,265 times
Reputation: 28769
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I'm sorry your daughter experienced this...my son was also in the military, and received probably the same vaccines and more, b/c he went over to Afghanistan....so even more vaccines were necessary...and this proves my point...he did ok with them...but his daughter is a chronic diabetic...and sometimes I can't help but wonder....? Yanno....? I'm not saying those vaccines, hurt her, but I'm also not saying they didn't. She has allergies terrible and ashma...and eye problems, and she is only 13.

My son or his wife did any drugs....nor did they drink, but whose to say? No one can prove it not to be true or to be true....

What I'm saying is, if you want your kids vaccinated fine...do it, but if you don't thats ok to...

This world is crazy, the media instills fear....when it shouldn't even be an issue.
People think, it's ok to tell others how they should think and feel and it's not ok.....period.

I don't approve of being gay, nor approve of abortion, but it's none of my business to tell people who to live their lives....that is between them and their God, and if you outlaw abortions, you will have women going back to coat hanger abortions, believe me, they will get it anyway they can. And that is my point with vaccines...unless their is an outbreak, then it is necessary to take all precautions.

OK, here is an example, they bring patients over to this country, from Africa with ebola? But, insist now that you must have vaccinations for chicken pox, etc????? Does that make any sense???

Like I said, I had all those childhood diseases....some it may kill, but a very small amount of child now a days die from Chicken pox....so you can look at both sides of this, and say, if the kid had the vaccine, he'd still be alive....

This is life....and it is never 100% full proof no matter how humans would like it to be...life is hard, sometimes, we sometimes are made to deal with horrible situations, but nothing we do is going to change thing and make it 100% safe.
Possible correlation between vaccination and diabetes has been studied and rejected. The link I am including references a large study of children in Denmark. The results were published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Cohorts that were vaccinated were compared with cohorts that were not vaccinated. No increased incidence of diabetes was noted among those vaccinated.


MMS: Error

I would also point out that kids were getting juvenile diabetes before there was any vaccination going on. One famous example is the daughter of Charles Evans Hughes, a former presidential candidate and secretary of state, who was one of the first diabetics who was able to take insulin.

Now, what is true is that overall incidence of diabetes is increasing. It is certainly worth asking why. It could be many things and nothing has been conclusively proven with respect to Juvenile, or Type I diabetes. It may have to do with diet. It may have to do with changes in habits of hygiene. It may be a lot of things, but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with vaccination.

There interesting book on this subject that has been written a journalist named "Dan Hurley". The book is titled Diabetes Rising.


http://www.amazon.com/Diabetes-Risin.../dp/1607148307

As we have said so many times here, nothing is 100% safe, including vaccines. However, that's not the test that should be applied. In fact, its not test society has applied in any other area either. We allow people to drive cars even though driving is not 100% safe. We allow people to walk to work although that is not 100% safe. I could go on and on. The calculation that all of us make daily (whether some can admit it or not) is whether the benefits of a particular activity outweigh risks. The benefit from vaccines is huge and the risk that vaccines pose is small, very small indeed. If vaccines were 1% as dangerous as certain people allege or claim them to be, the majority of people in this country wouldn't stand for it. Nor, would the FDA approve those vaccines for sale and distribution. Finally, the CDC would not add those vaccines to its "recommended" list.

Those are the facts. Some "personal choices" are just well.....kind of dumb.

Last edited by markg91359; 07-16-2015 at 08:53 AM..
 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:24 AM
 
26,345 posts, read 24,503,541 times
Reputation: 16017
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Possible correlation between vaccination and diabetes has been studied and rejected. The link I am including references a large study of children in Denmark. The results were published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Cohorts that were vaccinated were compared with cohorts that were not vaccinated. No increased incidence of diabetes was noted among those vaccinated.


MMS: Error

I would also point out that kids were getting juvenile diabetes before their was any vaccination going on. One famous example is the daughter of Charles Evans Hughes, a former presidential candidate and secretary of state, who was one of the first diabetics who was able to take insulin.

Now, what is true is that overall incidence of diabetes is increasing. It is certainly worth asking why. It could be many things and nothing has been conclusively proven with respect to Juvenile, or Type I diabetes. It may have to do with diet. It may have to do with changes in habits of hygiene. It may be a lot of things, but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with vaccination.

There interesting book on this subject that has been written a journalist named "Dan Hurley". The book is titled Diabetes Rising.


http://www.amazon.com/Diabetes-Risin.../dp/1607148307

As we have said so many times here, nothing is 100% safe, including vaccines. However, that's not the test that should be applied. In fact, its not test society has applied in any other area either. We allow people to drive cars even though driving is not 100% safe. We allow people to walk to work although that is not 100% safe. I could go on and on. The calculation that all of us make daily (whether some can admit it or not) is whether the benefits of a particular activity outweigh risks. The benefit from vaccines is huge and the risk that vaccines pose is small, very small indeed. If vaccines were 1% as dangerous as certain people allege or claim them to be, the majority of people in this country wouldn't stand for it. Nor, would the FDA approve those vaccines for sale and distribution. Finally, the CDC would not add those vaccines to its "recommended" list.

Those are the facts. Some "personal choices" are just well.....kind of dumb.
I'm not going to get into a debate with you on this subject, and my choices, as well as anyone else's choices, are not dumb.

I've had all the necessary vaccines....including shingles...but.....and that's where I leave this subject....just voicing my opinion....

What I will say, is thank you for the read...gave me food for thought.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:37 AM
 
2,937 posts, read 1,782,174 times
Reputation: 6659
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
yeah, I was unable to grasp what she was saying...but now understand....
Yea I try to avoid vaccine debates because it's always the same arguments on both sides and opinions rarely change.

However, comparing the Holocaust to this I couldn't just scroll past.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,947,028 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
Promote means to encourage, not demand or mandate a law....

in this day and age, what kind of risk are you talking about?

When people started questioning (which was a good thing) that so called epidemic that was in Florida....all of a sudden you didn't hear anything else about it.....????

I'm sorry but your wrong in this...you cannot tell people how to live their lives and to think and believe as you do....

besides, if your kid is vaccinated, there is no danger....if you can call chicken pox or measles danger? They are not life threatening diseases...now if we were talking about ebola, then that is a whole different ball game.

In California they have been "promoting and encouraging vaccination", and as a result some areas have utterly abysmal rates of vaccination.

Depending on people to be rational and make the scientifically and medically sound choice in those areas has failed, thus the state is well within their rights to mandate vaccination for all kids attending school. Don't like it, homeschool your kids.

Also its not the kids that are vaccinated that are at risk, its the kids and adults who for legitimate medical reasons cannot be vaccinated, they depend largely on herd immunity to protect them from diseases such as measles which can be even more dangerous for them than normal, when herd immunity breaks down, we end up with outbreaks of diseases that were basically eradicated.


California is not doing anything radical, they are merely doing away with personal exemptions that should not have existed in the first place.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,947,028 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
The right to public education is guaranteed by each state's constitution, not the U.S. Constitution. Here is the specific wording in Article Nine, Section Two of the Colorado Constitution...



You'll find something similar in all fifty state constitutions.



This right, like others, is not absolute. If a state decides to attach to attending these schools, a requirement of vaccination for the students, the Courts and legal precedent are quite firmly in their corner.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:44 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,086 posts, read 9,859,108 times
Reputation: 22739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
This right, like others, is not absolute. If a state decides to attach to attending these schools, a requirement of vaccination for the students, the Courts and legal precedent are quite firmly in their corner.
Not arguing with you. Just clarifying a misconception many people seem to have about the source of our children's right to free public education.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:45 AM
 
26,345 posts, read 24,503,541 times
Reputation: 16017
Quote:
Juram In California they have been "promoting and encouraging vaccination", and as a result some areas have utterly abysmal rates of vaccination.
well I'm sorry but when you say California, to me your talking about a whole lot of illegals who just don't care....plus those kids are coming into this country with disease, so America has put this on herself.

Quote:
Depending on people to be rational and make the scientifically and medically sound choice in those areas has failed, thus the state is well within their rights to mandate vaccination for all kids attending school. Don't like it, homeschool your kids.
you can't depend on anyone else to take care of you,the only person you can depend on is yourself....
and that is bottom line...if the government refuses to enforce our immigration laws, how the hell do they expect people to adhere to vaccine laws.

Quote:
Also its not the kids that are vaccinated that are at risk, its the kids and adults who for legitimate medical reasons cannot be vaccinated, they depend largely on herd immunity to protect them from diseases such as measles which can be even more dangerous for them than normal, when herd immunity breaks down, we end up with outbreaks of diseases that were basically eradicated.
Absolutely, no one is disputing that...but don't penalize people for what is happening with illegals....sorry but they are bringing in most of these problems, as was the so called outbreak in Florida, they said, it was people from other countries...however, I thought if they came in from other countries, they had to legally be vaccinated? Or were they illegals to? Plus, Florida is a huge hub for illegals.

It becomes very radical when people are forced to do things to their kids they don't want to do...oh yes, it is very radical, and the problem lies within a society that is now being overrun with illegals from all over the world.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,947,028 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
There are enough kids vaccinated to day, that will help avoid those illnesses....

Except that isn't true. If the unvaccinated kids were evenly distributed throughout the state, you could cover up certain deficiencies but you have whole areas with completely abysmal vaccination rates that are turning into disease reservoirs.

Here in Arizona, some schools have less than a 40% vaccination rate and getting worse. The California law is a proactive one to put an end to this trend and stop diseases such as measles and whooping cough from spreading in the state.



The red dots represent schools with less than a 60% vaccination rate, you're talking vaccination rates equivalent to that of countries like Chad or Sudan. In some of these schools you can have 50, 60, even 70% of kids being unvaccinated due to a PBE(personal beliefs exemption).


 
Old 07-16-2015, 08:47 AM
 
26,345 posts, read 24,503,541 times
Reputation: 16017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Except that isn't true. If the unvaccinated kids were evenly distributed throughout the state, you could cover up certain deficiencies but you have whole areas with completely abysmal vaccination rates that are turning into disease reservoirs.

Here in Arizona, some schools have less than a 40% vaccination rate and getting worse. The California law is a proactive one to put an end to this trend and stop diseases such as measles and whooping cough from spreading in the state.



The red dots represent schools with less than a 60% vaccination rate, you're talking vaccination rates equivalent to that of countries like Chad or Sudan. In some of these schools you can have 50, 60, even 70% of kids being unvaccinated due to a PBE(personal beliefs exemption).

now tell me, how many of those kids are illegals?
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