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Old 07-16-2015, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,004 posts, read 98,863,560 times
Reputation: 31426

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
If they have a moral belief or a religious belief against vaccination or one of the mandated vaccines now they are deprived from a free public education. That is discriminatory. If any child can attend school without a vaccine including those with HIV then all children should be allowed that right. They pose no greater threat than those other children.

There will be legal action in California.
These laws have been upheld in Mississippi and West Virginia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeHa View Post
Seriously? You're comparing vaccinations being required to the Holocaust.

Do you have any idea how disgustingly offensive that is?

The Holocaust was mass genocide, it was the brutal torture and death of over 6 million innocent souls.

Comparing vaccinations to the Holocaust makes you sound nuttier than Jenny McCarthy.
Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeHa View Post
Yea I try to avoid vaccine debates because it's always the same arguments on both sides and opinions rarely change.

However, comparing the Holocaust to this I couldn't just scroll past.
Ditto. Also ditto to the Japanese internment camp analogy. Disgusting! Sadly, these people think they are extremely witty and clever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Vaccines=Bad and unnatural.


Injecting yourself with botulinum toxin which literally will kill you at a high enough dose=A-Okay.
Also smoking cartons of cigarettes a day to stay slim, and ingesting all kinds of other crap.

 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:07 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,505 times
Reputation: 2377
This is like playing irrationality roulette.

We've got the religious anti-vaxer, the conspiracy theorist, the natural foods only, the "vitamins cure everything", the "you're not the boss of me", the "my super human immune system fights off all illness, if your kid dies they must be weak", the "vaccines cause homosexuality", "it's all the immigrants' fault" and the ones that don't even know what they are...

Post a valid scientific or statistical point and spin the wheel, who knows which one it will land on. The response will be full of entitlement and indignation, with a large dose of "opinion" or "feelings", a side order of an unverifiable personal experience that supports their view (or a neighbor's experience, or an entire city with a red arm...).

Common denominator? A complete disregard for established science and immunology.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,554,762 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Huh? I'm talking specifically about my former neighbors and acquaintances who automatically dismissed the expertise of medical professionals because they "knew better." They were infuriating for many reasons, and they made my kids' pediatrician, a family friend, absolutely crazy because he could not talk any sense into them.
Well I understand that. It goes both ways. Plenty of people have been infuriated with their doctors, and family friends. I think all are guilty of that. I personally don't think that warrants a broad brush though.

There are plenty of incompetent doctors and plenty of irritating family friends out there. We see them both daily listed in the current events thread and there are many more we hear nothing about. I know plenty of doctors and nurses who don't get yearly flu vaccines and tell me they aren't safe. It's like the song that never ends in this conversation.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:16 AM
 
25,467 posts, read 23,295,635 times
Reputation: 15332
Quote:
leebeemi And you can't dictate how I feel. Seriously. Don't impose your meaning system on me. I don't feel the same way you do. You are doing that very thing, saying I don't understand how that parent would feel, so I should change my tune. I'm saying YOU don't understand how a parent who loses a child due to illness feels, so consider that.
I am not imposing anything on you or dictating to you and was trying to be as nice as possible about this in my posts...sister don't start yelling at me....and yes I do understand how a parent feels who loses a child....you don't know me from Adam nor do you know what I've been thru...so don't you dare yell at me or start assuming...chill

If you look at my posts, I said I could see both sides of this!!!!!!!!

Quote:
I was a child that had a life-threatening reaction to a pertussis vaccination. Me. My parents almost lost me. They STILL elected to have me get the remaining vaccinations, and to have my sister vaccinated fully, including pertussis. I have had a complicated life of illness. That is one reason I'm very glad to have been vaccinated. I had a terrible, terrible case of chickenpox. I had scarlet fever. I was hospitalized with mono when I was 9. I have HPV and had to have a huge chunk of my cervix removed. I don't want to worry about measles. Or whooping cough. Or anything else. It is a weight off my mind. So don't tell me I don't understand the scariness of being immune deficient. My reaction is just different than yours. I have used the information I have found (through my own research and my doctors'), and my parents did the same for me when I was young.
Where in God's name did I say that YOU don't understand the scariness of being immune deficient...missy, you need to think before you react...I'm not telling anyone here how to think or believe....what I was doing, was sharing my own personal feelings and thoughts, which again I will add, I can see both sides of this....the pros and cons...of both sides, period!!!

and because of that you come in here and slam me with all of this? This is not having a controlled conversation, this is pysco babbel....you fly off the hook b/c you think I'm talking against you...

Lady, you need to re-read before you go attacking someone....seriously....talk about reaction...

I'm sorry you've experienced the health issues you have, but your not the only one who has experienced sadness of health issues...and loss, believe me....what works for you might not work for me....or visa versa and if you can't understand that, then our conversation needs to be limited....
sorry, I'm happy to hear you out, but you need to calm down and use an inside voice to communicate, otherwise we accomplish nothing, do we.

And BTW, I'm not about to list my problems to you....or anyone else, to prove my point.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:18 AM
 
25,467 posts, read 23,295,635 times
Reputation: 15332
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
This is like playing irrationality roulette.

We've got the religious anti-vaxer, the conspiracy theorist, the natural foods only, the "vitamins cure everything", the "you're not the boss of me", the "my super human immune system fights off all illness, if your kid dies they must be weak", the "vaccines cause homosexuality", "it's all the immigrants' fault" and the ones that don't even know what they are...

Post a valid scientific or statistical point and spin the wheel, who knows which one it will land on. The response will be full of entitlement and indignation, with a large dose of "opinion" or "feelings", a side order of an unverifiable personal experience that supports their view (or a neighbor's experience, or an entire city with a red arm...).

Common denominator? A complete disregard for established science and immunology.
yeah, I'm outa here....you try and do something good and some people just refuse to read and see both sides of the coin, another problem with this world today...people think they can tell others how to live their lives...amazing.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:24 AM
 
5,650 posts, read 3,201,502 times
Reputation: 6630
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Why did she not tell the doctor who did her enlistment physical that beef broth made her sick?



Are you really so obtuse that you do not understand that the reason "people don't die from the Measles in great numbers here today" is because we vaccinate against measles?!!!



Do you not understand the technology to reduce the risk of such an incident is much better today? You really pretty much do not understand vaccines at all, do you?



You say "the media instills fear" and in the same breath imply that your son's vaccinations caused your granddaughter's diabetes. Vaccines do not cause diabetes, but there is evidence that certain infections may do so. If there had been a vaccine against viruses that cause diabetes, would you have wanted your granddaughter to take it?

Despite all the angst over Ebola, the only threat most of those patients posed was to the people taking care of them. The general public was at risk only from the patient who traveled here on his own, not those brought in, with appropriate precautions, for treatment. The threat became a reality only in a hospital taken off guard and not prepared to take care of an Ebola patient. Chicken pox is a greater threat in the US, especially to children, than Ebola.

There is no intent for vaccines to make life 100% safe, but they do a spectacular job of making safer than it is without them. It is foolish to wait until there is a major outbreak to vaccinate. The goal is to prevent those outbreaks.



If by "consumerism" you mean the interest of the consumer, there are extensive protocols in place for monitoring the safety of vaccines. You just choose to pretend they do not exist. Your "consumerism" cannot be "mandated". There is no way to make any drug or medical treatment totally risk free.

Are you aware the FDA rejects more new drug applications than it accepts? Are you aware that there are people who use NSAIDs despite the cardiovascular risk because the alternative is to either suffer the pain or use narcotics, which have their own serious side effects and adverse effects?

Arcoxia, by the way, is available in 80 other countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etoricoxib

"A Cochrane systematic review assessed the benefits of single-dose etoricoxib in reduction of acute post-operative pain in adults. Single-dose oral etoricoxib provides good quality pain relief post-operatively in adults and adverse events are similar to placebo in the studies included. Etoricoxib given at a dose of 120 mg is as effective or even better than other analgesics that are commonly used."

Since you are alli n favor of "choice", shouldn't the FDA approve Arcoxia and let patients choose to take it if they understand the risks?
She never knew she had a red meat allergy, only dairy and soy. That is not very common an allergy. I suppose only an Allergist would connect the dots, and test, between dairy and red meat.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:31 AM
 
25,467 posts, read 23,295,635 times
Reputation: 15332
Quote:
Juram Insisting that someone is wrong without providing the slightest shred of proof is the equivalent of stomping your feet.
No, more so, it's a waste of time, b/c when someone does go in and google proof, they retort, that it's not true anyway, which is something I've learned over the years, with posting in here....
just like your posts, they are one person's opinion...

cities posts invalid crime rates in their locations, b/c they want people to come visit....


Quote:
I know you'd like to point the finger at illegals but is just isn't the case. In the vast majority of recent measles outbreaks, they were linked to unvaccinated Americans that went overseas and brought the disease back with them.
I'm sorry, but that is one issue I won't agree with you on.....




Quote:
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cynthia-leifer/stop-blaming-illegal-immigrants-for-the-measles-outbreak_b_6717456.html]Stop Blaming Illegal Immigrants For the Measles Outbreak*|*Cynthia Leifer
and this again, one person's opinion....
 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,796,958 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
No, more so, it's a waste of time, b/c when someone does go in and google proof, they retort, that it's not true anyway, which is something I've learned over the years, with posting in here....
just like your posts, they are one person's opinion...

cities posts invalid crime rates in their locations, b/c they want people to come visit....




I'm sorry, but that is one issue I won't agree with you on.....






and this again, one person's opinion....



Hard data is not an opinion, regardless of some xenophobic issues you have with Central American immigrants. You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.


It seems likely you have an issue with bigotry towards these immigrants, why else would someone strive so hard to place the blame on a group of people when all known data and statistics indicates otherwise.


You can "feel" however you like, that doesn't change that the known data indicates that unvaccinated Americans, living and working among you everyday are more to blame for these outbreaks of diseases such as measles and whooping cough. Where most of these folks are coming from, diseases such as measles and other vaccine preventable diseases are not an issue.


They weren't an issue in the U.S. either, until vaccination rates start going down significantly.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:42 AM
 
25,467 posts, read 23,295,635 times
Reputation: 15332
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Huh? I'm talking specifically about my former neighbors and acquaintances who automatically dismissed the expertise of medical professionals because they "knew better." They were infuriating for many reasons, and they made my kids' pediatrician, a family friend, absolutely crazy because he could not talk any sense into them.
opinions, that is all your talking about is personal prefrences...and this is the point I'm trying to make, I'm not taking any side here....but you can go to 3 different pediatricians, and they all have different opinions on different health issues, that is why people suggest before surgery, get a 2nd or 3rd opinion.

We must stay open to different views, and science isn't always right either....nothing is 100% assured...
if it were we'd have a perfect world, wouldn't we?

But the world isn't perfect and never will be....there are always going to be diseases, and different opinions on why or how to stop them.

If I have cancer....and the doctor tells me, I have a 50/50 chance....I'll have 100 different opinions why or why I shouldn't go for treatments....my theory is, yeah, I could try....but down the road it may give me 1 or 2 more years, which it usually isn't even that long....so, I opt out of any treatments, which is my choice....

yet, I can understand why people do fight, or chose not to....
 
Old 07-16-2015, 10:45 AM
 
25,467 posts, read 23,295,635 times
Reputation: 15332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Hard data is not an opinion, regardless of some xenophobic issues you have with Central American immigrants. You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.


It seems likely you have an issue with bigotry towards these immigrants, why else would someone strive so hard to place the blame on a group of people when all known data and statistics indicates otherwise.


You can "feel" however you like, the known data indicates that unvaccinated Americans, living and working among you everyday are more to blame for these outbreaks of diseases such as measles and whooping cough.
I have no bigotry toward legal immigrants...I have a girl friend who is a legal immigrant....but yes, I have a big huge problem with illegals! Period!

and yes indeed, I can feel however I like....and I would tend to say, and maybe I'm wrong on this, that there are way more American's vaccinated then unvaccinated.....

God, I came into this thread to offer light from both perspectives, and this.....

Just b/c you offer up links, doesn't mean they are correct.
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