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Old 07-16-2015, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,573,351 times
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As far as this law being here to stay as some say, well, maybe not.....

Opponents of new California vaccination law begin referendum drive - LA Times

"If the petitions for a referendum qualify for the ballot by Sept. 28 with the signatures of 365,000 registered voters, the law will be put on hold until voters decide the issue."

Seems 365k signatures should be easy to get. And while the nationwide polls lean towards vaccinating(though of course poll outcomes often depend on how the poll question is worded), CA is its own state and the voting booth is a different arena.

 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,548,424 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Start a petition then, talk to politicians and doctors, if there is majority support for your cause, you might just succeed.


In the meantime, because it does have majority support, because it has the backing from both the medical and political establishment, mandatory vaccination is the law in California.
This is great advice actually. There are many taking it in California, especially in light of the new vaccine bills down the pipe line. It's the only way to make a difference. I don't think many believed it would pass, or go beyond children. Wake up calls are sometimes needed.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,548,424 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
As far as this law being here to stay as some say, well, maybe not.....

Opponents of new California vaccination law begin referendum drive - LA Times

"If the petitions for a referendum qualify for the ballot by Sept. 28 with the signatures of 365,000 registered voters, the law will be put on hold until voters decide the issue."

Seems 365k signatures should be easy to get. And while the nationwide polls lean towards vaccinating(though of course poll outcomes often depend on how the poll question is worded), CA is its own state and the voting booth is a different arena.
People are definitely seeing the light. I think introducing the 2nd bill so closely to the first is making an impact. It's getting the attention of people without kids, or grown and gone kids. SB277 didn't affect them but the new adult mandates will.

Last edited by PoppySead; 07-16-2015 at 12:40 PM.. Reason: sorry pad text
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,794,198 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
As far as this law being here to stay as some say, well, maybe not.....

Opponents of new California vaccination law begin referendum drive - LA Times

"If the petitions for a referendum qualify for the ballot by Sept. 28 with the signatures of 365,000 registered voters, the law will be put on hold until voters decide the issue."

Seems 365k signatures should be easy to get. And while the nationwide polls lean towards vaccinating(though of course poll outcomes often depend on how the poll question is worded), CA is its own state and the voting booth is a different arena.


Getting it to a referendum is one thing, having a majority of Californians oppose it is an entirely different matter.


Political handicappers within the state expect the new law to end up as a referendum but dont expect it to be overturned.


Once the referendum option is exhausted and with the Courts being of no help, people will simply have to get over their conspiracy theories, homeschool their kids or move out of state.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,886 posts, read 8,867,123 times
Reputation: 18290
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
https://www.aclu.org/your-right-equality-education

DO ALL KIDS HAVE THE RIGHT TO AN EQUAL EDUCATION?

Yes! All kids living in the United States have the right to a free public education. And the Constitution requires that all kids be given equal educational opportunity no matter what their race, ethnic background, religion, or sex, or whether they are rich or poor, citizen or non-citizen. Even if you are in this country illegally, you have the right to go to public school. The ACLU is fighting hard to make sure this right isn't taken away.

In addition to this constitutional guarantee of an equal education, many federal, state and local laws also protect students against discrimination in education based on sexual orientation or disability, including pregnancy and HIV status.

In fact, even though some kids may complain about having to go to school, the right to an equal educational opportunity is one of the most valuable rights you have. The Supreme Court said this in the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case when it struck down race segregation in the public schools.

If you believe you or someone you know is being discriminated against in school, speak up! Talk to a teacher, the principal, the head of a community organization or a lawyer so they can investigate the situation and help you take legal action if necessary.

1. Quote the Constitution where it mentions education.

2. Don't talk to me about believing in public education. I was a public school teacher for 13 years and a public school administrator for another 20. Every child ought to be able to go to a public school.

3. But that doesn't mean there aren't rules one must follow to accept that right. If you go to an amusement park, you have to be a certain height to ride in some rides. If you want to check books out of a public library, you may have to pay for a library card. And if you want to go to a public school, generally there is only one rule -- you have your vaccinations.

4. Don't try to mix in other things. Brown was about unequal education, which I have witnessed first hand when I taught in Maryland. For example, White schools had libraries; Black schools had no libraries. White schools got new textbooks; Black schools got texts were a decade old and used. That's what Brown was about. Brown did not say that certain rules could not be applied equally.

5. Okay, you say speak up and tell a principal. Okay, I was a principal, and I'm telling you that you don't understand the law.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:41 PM
 
25,454 posts, read 23,273,196 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
tlvancouver If you want to be informed, the data is there, it's not hard to find, it is clear and unequivocal (start with my graphic above). But might I suggest that as you look to learn, posting your "beliefs" that are admittedly uninformed isn't a way to be respected. Questions are good, but posting "beliefs" are not without some medical support for the
Yes, data is there...and yes, I posted my beliefs...and said, I've been vaccinated...and also chose to have the vaccination for shingles...I'm advocating for those who have lost children to vaccines....there are always exceptions to the rules...however, I also vaccinated my son, and would do so again...but I'm still out there on the fence...nothing is 100% full proof and its for the very small amount of parents that I tried to get my point across....



Quote:
Look at it this way - you have a family member with multiple illnesses so you understand the impact of being ill.
Of course I do, but you continually fail to see my point....and it seems useless to try to explain

Quote:
Vaccines give you a chance to prevent more than 15 illnesses that kill and disable people, the odds of a serious adverse reaction to childhood vaccines are less than one in a million.
yes, they absolutely do, but for the 1% that are dead now due to vaccines? What about them?

and yes, I totally understand the necessity to vaccinate the masses....but I still believe it should be up to the parent to decide and not anyone else....
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,794,198 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
This is great advice actually. There are many taking it in California, especially in light of the new vaccine bills down the pipe line. It's the only way to make a difference. I don't think many believed it would pass, or go beyond children. Wake up calls are sometimes needed.

Exactly. These outbreaks of diseases that were largely eradicated have been a wakeup call to those who had become complacent and let a tiny but vocal minority push a backwards, conspiracy-driven agenda for far too long.


Its not a matter of if but when the next outbreak of vaccine preventable diseases occurs among the unvaccinated population. Each time it happens, the case for mandatory vaccination is strengthened, the direction that things are going is pretty clear, the kids have had their run of things and made a huge mess in the process, now the adults are reasserting themselves.

The time for entertaining the paranoid delusions of a small group of science deniers is rapidly coming to an end.

The anti vaccination movement has always been a temporary one, people will humor it until the consequences begin to directly affect them and people in their lives. With measles, whooping cough and other diseases seeing large increases in the number of infections, people are beginning to cease tolerating these goofy conspiracy theories.


The law in California is just a start, as more kids get sick and more people die from diseases that basically didnt exist here in the U.S. 15-20 years ago, the voices of the anti-vaxxers will simply be drowned out.

Last edited by Juram; 07-16-2015 at 12:55 PM..
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,573,351 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Why do those who refuse to vaccinate healthy children get to dictate what everyone else does?

Sorry, it's not going to happen.
I ask the same for those who want to dictate to others to vaccinate with strings attached(ie can't attend public schools if one doesn't vaccinate). All sides have choices. Not necessarily desirable to everyone, but choices nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Start a petition then, talk to politicians and doctors, if there is majority support for your cause, you might just succeed.


In the meantime, because it does have majority support, because it has the backing from both the medical and political establishment, mandatory vaccination is the law in California.
Seems many of us discussing this issue don't live there. For myself, it matters to me on a high level discussion on the issue of choice without strings attached on this specific issue, vaccines. Your 1st suggestion is therefore not necessary in the state I live in(AZ).

It has majority support in a nationwide poll. See my recent post on this possibly going to the voting booth. If this does go to the polls, and enough people vote, I would agree with your statement that is has or doesn't have majority support, of the people, who should be deciding on this in my view, not a few politicians.


Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Let's hope you aren't ever diagnosed with a condition treated with immunosuppressive medications. What you're asking is impossible.
Certainly not practical/desirable, but I was making a point in a larger context.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:55 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,194,565 times
Reputation: 6627
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
People are definitely seeing the light. I think introducing the 2nd bill so closely to the first is making an impact. It's getting the attention of people without kids, or grown and gone kids. SB277 didn't affect them but the new adult mandates will.
Precisely. Many people did not pay attention when it was only children in public schools. I don't have children. My children are grown. BUT when you start passing vaccination legislation where adults will lose their jobs and face criminal penalties, that will awaken a sleeping giant. Fired for not getting a Flu Shot every year? We have already seen that one with Nurses being fired for that. They just rolled up their sleeves and were "good sports"? No, they SUED, and they WON in court. Wear a mask around the patients.

It is quite another ballgame when you come after adults themselves. I have been saying this for some time. If legislators can get away with it with children, don't think they won't come after adults too. Vaccinate all 25% of the population (children), it still will be nowhere enough for "Herd Immunity".
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:57 PM
 
Location: The analog world
15,566 posts, read 8,742,257 times
Reputation: 20877
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
1. Quote the Constitution where it mentions education.

2. Don't talk to me about believing in public education. I was a public school teacher for 13 years and a public school administrator for another 20. Every child ought to be able to go to a public school.

3. But that doesn't mean there aren't rules one must follow to accept that right. If you go to an amusement park, you have to be a certain height to ride in some rides. If you want to check books out of a public library, you may have to pay for a library card. And if you want to go to a public school, generally there is only one rule -- you have your vaccinations.

4. Don't try to mix in other things. Brown was about unequal education, which I have witnessed first hand when I taught in Maryland. For example, White schools had libraries; Black schools had no libraries. White schools got new textbooks; Black schools got texts were a decade old and used. That's what Brown was about. Brown did not say that certain rules could not be applied equally.

5. Okay, you say speak up and tell a principal. Okay, I was a principal, and I'm telling you that you don't understand the law.
There seems to be quite a bit of confusion about this issue. The guarantee of free public education is found in all fifty state constitutions, not in the U.S. Constitution. In my own state constitution, it is laid out in Article Nine, Section Two, which I quoted in a previous post.
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