U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,548 posts, read 10,426,264 times
Reputation: 20344

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
The right to public education is guaranteed by each state's constitution, not the U.S. Constitution. Here is the specific wording in Article Nine, Section Two of the Colorado Constitution...



You'll find something similar in all fifty state constitutions.
The previous poster was not talking about state constitutions. She was talking about the federal Constitution, which is why she was bringing in Brown v Board.

Yes, as far as I know, most (if not all) states have similar provisions in state constitutions.

It doesn't say that there can't be rules for coming to school.

We don't allow students to come to school nude.
We don't allow students to come to school with a gun.
We don't have to allow students to come to school without realistic vaccinations that help prevent the spread of disease. Boards of health have wide discretion in this country, in every state.

 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,927,858 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Getting it to a referendum is one thing, having a majority of Californians oppose it is an entirely different matter.


Political handicappers within the state expect the new law to end up as a referendum but dont expect it to be overturned.


Once the referendum option is exhausted and with the Courts being of no help, people will simply have to get over their conspiracy theories, homeschool their kids or move out of state.
Of course, the goal it to get it on the ballot and have it decided there.

People have a right to believe that little green men will jump out of vaccine syringes if they want and infect them. I have my view on that but it's not my place to force my view on them if they believe that.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,674,381 times
Reputation: 1699
There are other concerns parents may have about vaccines. Contamination with other bacteria and viruses.
FDA Warns GSK Over Flu Vaccine Contamination - Law360
http://www.law360.com/articles/363430/sanofi-warned-by-fda-over-conditions-in-2-vaccine-plants

We have no way of knowing if a vaccine is contaminated.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,950,531 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Precisely. Many people did not pay attention when it was only children in public schools. I don't have children. My children are grown. BUT when you start passing vaccination legislation where adults will lose their jobs and face criminal penalties, that will awaken a sleeping giant. Fired for not getting a Flu Shot every year? We have already seen that one with Nurses being fired for that. They just rolled up their sleeves and were "good sports"? No, they SUED, and they WON in court. Wear a mask around the patients.

It is quite another ballgame when you come after adults themselves. I have been saying this for some time. If legislators can get away with it with children, don't think they won't come after adults too. Vaccinate all 25% of the population (children), it still will be nowhere enough for "Herd Immunity".


Actually you were the one complaining that child care workers had no vaccination requirements.....well this law would accomplish just that. There is nothing unusual about it, if you want to work in child care, provide proof of current immunization, get immunized or find a new career field.

The flu vaccine is one that someone can opt out of,
, the other three or four, not so much and I see nothing wrong with that, lots of professions require immunizations.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:06 PM
 
6,391 posts, read 3,587,357 times
Reputation: 7321
So What has Disney done with their own employees? No mandatory vaccinations as a requirement for employment. No firing for failure to comply.



Can Employers Mandate Vaccinations for Employees? - Bloomberg Business

No VISITOR will be required to show proof of vaccination at the gates either, or that the children are residents of California who are vaccinated.

Business as usual as far as Disney goes.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,894,376 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
1. Quote the Constitution where it mentions education.

2. Don't talk to me about believing in public education. I was a public school teacher for 13 years and a public school administrator for another 20. Every child ought to be able to go to a public school.

3. But that doesn't mean there aren't rules one must follow to accept that right. If you go to an amusement park, you have to be a certain height to ride in some rides. If you want to check books out of a public library, you may have to pay for a library card. And if you want to go to a public school, generally there is only one rule -- you have your vaccinations.

4. Don't try to mix in other things. Brown was about unequal education, which I have witnessed first hand when I taught in Maryland. For example, White schools had libraries; Black schools had no libraries. White schools got new textbooks; Black schools got texts were a decade old and used. That's what Brown was about. Brown did not say that certain rules could not be applied equally.

5. Okay, you say speak up and tell a principal. Okay, I was a principal, and I'm telling you that you don't understand the law.
Sure, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. Stating a profession on the internet is not necessary, it doesn't mean you were a good one and it doesn't make it true.

It's civil and human right to:

get an education;
hold a job;
receive medical care and be able to
function in society. Civil liberties are important in America. It's unethical to deny these rights to those who don't fully vaccinate or want a different schedule. Public school is not a business making a cake for someone who's gay, it's a federally funded entity. This is why we have legal recourse.

What's equal education to you? I guess our opinion on what an equal and free education differ. I'm a professor, does that make what I said more convincing? My sister is a teacher, my father was a professor, my mother was also a teacher. But yet, our opinions differ. I'll just let the courts decide this one.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:13 PM
 
6,391 posts, read 3,587,357 times
Reputation: 7321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Actually you were the one complaining that child care workers had no vaccination requirements.....well this law would accomplish just that. There is nothing unusual about it, if you want to work in child care, provide proof of current immunization, get immunized or find a new career field.

The flu vaccine is one that someone can opt out of,
, the other three or four, not so much and I see nothing wrong with that, lots of professions require immunizations.
Me? I never complained about that. I worked in Head Start myself. That is a FEDERAL program. Can California tell the Feds what rules and regulations to follow? I believe parents should have that choice, and most definitely vaccination should never be a condition of employment for adults.

Read my post about DISNEY. They are not mandating vaccinations for their employees. Maybe those Child Workers who refuse their own vaccinations and are fired can go work at Disney instead? ROLF.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:15 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 795,343 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
Yes, data is there...and yes, I posted my beliefs...and said, I've been vaccinated...and also chose to have the vaccination for shingles...I'm advocating for those who have lost children to vaccines....there are always exceptions to the rules...however, I also vaccinated my son, and would do so again...but I'm still out there on the fence...nothing is 100% full proof and its for the very small amount of parents that I tried to get my point across....





Of course I do, but you continually fail to see my point....and it seems useless to try to explain



yes, they absolutely do, but for the 1% that are dead now due to vaccines? What about them?

and yes, I totally understand the necessity to vaccinate the masses....but I still believe it should be up to the parent to decide and not anyone else....
I will type this slowly, so you can follow along. My frustration is getting the better of me.

And this is why people don't take you seriously. You know that one in a million severe adverse reactions is not the same as your made up 1 in 100 deaths, right? Do you actually see one child dying for every 4 elementary classrooms? DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL TO YOU? It is (wait for it)

.00001% chance of a severe adverse reaction, of which much fewer are alleged deaths associated with the vaccine.


 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:18 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 795,343 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
The previous poster was not talking about state constitutions. She was talking about the federal Constitution, which is why she was bringing in Brown v Board.

Yes, as far as I know, most (if not all) states have similar provisions in state constitutions.

It doesn't say that there can't be rules for coming to school.

We don't allow students to come to school nude.
We don't allow students to come to school with a gun.
We don't have to allow students to come to school without realistic vaccinations that help prevent the spread of disease. Boards of health have wide discretion in this country, in every state.
Agreed, and to make the pro-choice people happy - you can homeschool in the nude, with a gun.
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,548 posts, read 10,426,264 times
Reputation: 20344
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Sure, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. Stating a profession on the internet is not necessary, it doesn't mean you were a good one and it doesn't make it true.

It's civil and human right to:

get an education;
hold a job;
receive medical care and be able to
function in society. Civil liberties are important in America. It's unethical to deny these rights to those who don't fully vaccinate or want a different schedule. Public school is not a business making a cake for someone who's gay, it's a federally funded entity. This is why we have legal recourse.

What's equal education to you? I guess our opinion on what an equal and free education differ. I'm a professor, does that make what I said more convincing? My sister is a teacher, my father was a professor, my mother was also a teacher. But yet, our opinions differ. I'll just let the courts decide this one.
You see, this is what you often do. You get shot down with some lame opinion you have that is incorrect (in this case "the" Constitution), then you try to bring in other issues. You were talking about legalities; now you change to "ethics". You scurry around trying to figure out a way to be right, rather than to just admit what the law is.

You have a right to your opinion about vaccinations. But that doesn't change the law and what it is based on.

You're a professor...in college? Fine. Tell me about laws affecting colleges, and I'll listen and have a tendency to believe you. But we're not talking about post-secondary education...are we?

You might want to Google court cases regarding the topic. In place after place, the requirement for vaccines has mostly been upheld.

You might want to check out:

acobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that the freedom of the individual must sometimes be subordinated to the common welfare and is subject to the police power of the state.

The Supreme Court reaffirmed its decision in Jacobson in Zucht v. King (1922), which held that a school system could refuse admission to a student who failed to receive a required vaccination.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:58 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top