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Old 07-17-2015, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,674,381 times
Reputation: 1699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
Um, I know what the goal of cholera treatment is. What I'm asking is if you truly believe that is the best only course of action specifically for those deployed troops in the field. I don't need an education on treatment protocols in best-case circumstances. I am talking about personnel in the field, on the ground, where they're in not nearly the conditions of clinical treatment. In a tent, in a moving truck, with only fluids & nutrition they carry. That is a specific question. You made the point that cholera could be treated with fluids and nutrition. I am asking for a clarification. If you don't want to answer, fine. But please don't deflect an answer by trying to educate me on cholera. I do know what it is and the importance of hydration. I am trying to understand your earlier point.

Not clinical treatment. Troops on the ground treatment.

Again, quite simply: do you believe fluids and nutrition only should be the treatment for cholera for deployed military troops?
According to this article, it is the military that helped deaths from cholera go from 20% to 1%. They were the ones to come up with the best treatment... Soldiers have access to medical care like IV therapy you know.

History of U.S. military contributions to the study of diarrheal diseases. - PubMed - NCBI

 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,894,376 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
Um, I know what the goal of cholera treatment is. What I'm asking is if you truly believe that is the best only course of action specifically for those deployed troops in the field. I don't need an education on treatment protocols in best-case circumstances. I am talking about personnel in the field, on the ground, where they're in not nearly the conditions of clinical treatment. In a tent, in a moving truck, with only fluids & nutrition they carry. That is a specific question. You made the point that cholera could be treated with fluids and nutrition. I am asking for a clarification. If you don't want to answer, fine. But please don't deflect an answer by trying to educate me on cholera. I do know what it is and the importance of hydration. I am trying to understand your earlier point.

Not clinical treatment. Troops on the ground treatment.

Again, quite simply: do you believe fluids and nutrition only should be the treatment for cholera for deployed military troops?
Again, yes, if a soldier gets it I do. So do most. That would be the best treatment. What else do you suggest?
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,894,376 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Juram's point was that for those deployed, one dose of azithromycin is a far more efficient solution. Stateside, supportive care with is doable.
For who? The best treatment for the soldier is what's best for everyone. The quckest way to get him back on the front is a different question and does not equal what's best for the soldiers.imo.

Last edited by PoppySead; 07-17-2015 at 10:35 AM..
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:28 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 795,343 times
Reputation: 2377
Enough with the conspiracy theories.

If I'm looking for advice on disease control I will certainly go to the CDC. People can go to the farmers market or wherever they think better disease prevention advice comes from, but thankfully state legislatures are stepping in to prevent children from being put at risk due to that stupidity.

Childhood vaccines are safe and effective. The proof is in the results and the thousands of studies.

The majority of people support mandatory vaccinations for attendance at school.

If you're pro choice choose not to vaccinate and to homeschool.

Distractions and diversions don't change the fact that THERE IS NO VACCINE CONTROVERSY. THERE IS SCIENCE, FACTS, DATA AND EVIDENCE ON ONE SIDE AND FICTION AND SPIDEY SENSE ON THE OTHER.

The vast majority of children will get vaccinated, go to public school and as a result of the vaccines that kids have receive for 20+ years will live to have children of their own.

Moderator- this started as a discussion of the successful California legislation to ban personal exemptions to childhood vaccines, was retitled for some strange and unknown reason Vaccine "controversy" giving credence to unproven "anti-vax" agendas, has gone at least three rounds with exactly the same 8-10 anti-vax posters repeating their same debunked theories. Can we at least keep it on the new topic the moderator decided or at least retitle it again "Science vs Feelings"?

edit - if people want to talk about cholera or the blood brain barrier, perhaps a new post?
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,211 posts, read 466,377 times
Reputation: 2580
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Again, yes, if a soldier gets it I do. So do most. That would be the best treatment. What else do you suggest?
Antibiotic treatment, which can stop diahrrea much, much faster in the case of cholera. With supportive fluid treatment of course. And not all deployed troops have immediate access to nice clinical facilities. And in the case of cholera, someone stuck in the back of a truck for several hours may not have immediate and easy access to the treatments you are suggesting. That can be a problem. Can you not use your imagination to see why?

And I am not arguing against vaccine in this case. But in an instance where vaccine was not given, where surroundings are less than ideal, the same treatments that may be effective in a clinical setting may not be the ideal course of action.
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,211 posts, read 466,377 times
Reputation: 2580
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Enough with the conspiracy theories.

edit - if people want to talk about cholera or the blood brain barrier, perhaps a new post?
You are correct. I apologize. I will refrain from future distraction.
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,437 posts, read 28,289,218 times
Reputation: 29025
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/conten...nt_5/S171.full

"Ryan and Calderwood [103] recently reviewed the current status of cholera vaccines. The currently available parenteral vaccine against V. cholerae O1 is not recommended because of low protective efficacy and the high risk of adverse reactions. Two promising oral V. cholerae O1 vaccines are not yet licensed in the United States."

"US military personnel will not receive cholera vaccine."

Cholera Vaccines

Antibiotic Treatment | Treatment | Cholera | CDC

Fluid loss must be replaced.

"In conjunction with hydration, treatment with antibiotics is recommended for severely ill patients. It is particularly recommended for patients who are severely or moderately dehydrated and continue to pass a large volume of stool during rehydration treatment. Antibiotic treatment is also recommended for all patients who are hospitalized."

General Information | Cholera | CDC

"Antibiotics shorten the course and diminish the severity of the illness, but they are not as important as receiving rehydration."

Which gets us back to Juram's point: the military wants personnel to return to duty as rapidly as possible. In a field situation, the option of sitting on a toilet and guzzling Gatorade until you get better may not be available. What if you get sick while you are on patrol in enemy territory? Early antibiotic therapy would probably be judicious. In addition, it may not be possible to confirm the cause of severe diarrhea rapidly. It may not be cholera, but something else.
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:59 AM
 
6,391 posts, read 3,587,357 times
Reputation: 7321
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
It just got my attention because I am currently reading Laurie Garrett's "I Heard the Sirens Scream", a book about what happened in New York during and after 9/11 and what happened during the anthrax scare. By sheer coincidence, I am just at the part where the media is reporting the cases of anthrax and people are making a run on Cipro. Know what was really interesting about that anthrax scare and Cipro? It turns out the anthrax could have been treated with generic penicillin or doxycycline, which were cheaper and had fewer side effects.
I was living in NY for both of those. During the anthrax scare (mail containing anthrax), they were recommending Cipro as a precaution. Hospital staff were recommended to take it as a precaution. Many doctors and nurses were refusing to take it. They were discussing on local news channels what a powerful medication it was with potential severe side effects.

Yes, I had heard of Cipro before my food poisoning. If I had know that is what they were injecting me with, I would have asked for something else. Certainly, I would have preferred penicillin because I knew I would have no severe reactions.

If you know you have had a severe reaction to a medication, you better open your mouth and tell that doctor.How else would they know? My Dad's WW2 Dog Tags were marked No Penicillin, along with his blood type. Obviously, he must have told them himself when he entered the military.
 
Old 07-17-2015, 11:46 AM
 
12,886 posts, read 15,442,166 times
Reputation: 14854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
But most educated people vaccinate. Few doctors who actually work in pediatrics, family practice, or infectious disease oppose vaccinations. Look at the difference between Ben Carson, retired pediatric neurosurgeon and that doofus Rand Paul.
WRONG...most UNeducated people vaccinate.
Many doctors oppose vaccination...they just don't want to lose their license to practice
There are a HUGE amount of doctors and scientists and neurologists who KNOW how damaging vaccines are.
I'm amazed that you can't see that....must be because you've got blinders on to any information that isn't headed by the CDC.
Do you believe that all these doctors and scientists are uneducated????
Are you more educated than them?
Vaccines Uncensored
 
Old 07-17-2015, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,894,376 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
Antibiotic treatment, which can stop diahrrea much, much faster in the case of cholera. With supportive fluid treatment of course. And not all deployed troops have immediate access to nice clinical facilities. And in the case of cholera, someone stuck in the back of a truck for several hours may not have immediate and easy access to the treatments you are suggesting. That can be a problem. Can you not use your imagination to see why?

And I am not arguing against vaccine in this case. But in an instance where vaccine was not given, where surroundings are less than ideal, the same treatments that may be effective in a clinical setting may not be the ideal course of action.
A lot of people aren't treated in ideal conditions for it around the world, in a minute case it would have to be dealt with using whatever means possible. We are wittlng down the general question though. Which changes the answer. The real answer to the original question was best answered with hydration.
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