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Old 07-17-2015, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Washington state
4,688 posts, read 2,310,557 times
Reputation: 13722

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I have never eaten fish... not once in my life... I don't do seafood either. No one in my family eats tuna.. ever.

I do have family members that once or twice a year love to eat crab... not me.

Back to my point... why did the hospital go to the trouble and expense to remove any item with mercury and state there is no safe level for mercury exposure???

They cannot have it both ways... and I called them on it.
I'm having fried fish tonight. It's delicious. And I have shrimp about 30 times a year, not to mention tuna melts. What I can't believe is someone wants to take absolutely no chances with fish or mercury, but would run a bigger risk of their child dying of a disease that could have been prevented with a vaccine. That's sort of like putting your child in a car wrapped in armor, but not paying attention to whether the driver is drunk or not.

 
Old 07-17-2015, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
They are treated differently because the route of exposure is different. The body tries to break down methyl mercury whereas it has no defense against ethyl mercury that is injected.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...682-5/abstract

"Administration of vaccines containing thiomersal does not seem to raise blood concentrations of mercury above safe values in infants. Ethylmercury seems to be eliminated from blood rapidly via the stools after parenteral administration of thiomersal in vaccines."

Quote:
So you think that .7% of the population of the world made the FDA do a study which led to a question in thimerosal removal? And I am a conspiracy theorist?
Following Wakefield's fraudulent study, vaccination rates dropped worldwide. In essence, one dishonest man caused thimerosal to be removed from vaccines.

Despite the large body of evidence showing there was no link between thimerosal and autism, thimerosal was removed from children's vaccines with the expectation that the fear of autism being caused by vaccines would be relieved. However, since to the anti-vax gurus it's always the vaccine, people still were not resuming vaccination. The anti-vax gurus just moved the goalposts. That's why we are now discussing aluminum. If we take the aluminum out, they will pick something else to complain about. The next thing you know, they will be up in arms about the dihydrogen monoxide in vaccines.

Of course, now that there is no mercury in children's vaccines, there are those who think that it obviously just has to be like, you know, dangerous - because they took it out, dude!

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/776288

"The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) has endorsed the World Health Organization's (WHO's) Strategic Advisory Committee (SAGE) recommendation that thimerosal, a preservative used to prevent contamination in multidose vaccine vials, be exempted from a pending international treaty aimed at reducing global health hazards by limiting exposure to mercury, according to a statement published online December 17 [2012] in Pediatrics."

"Thimerosal contains ethyl mercury, which has not been associated with any of the toxic effects linked to its relative compound, methyl mercury, a known neurotoxin. Studies since the late 1990s have found no evidence of harm from using thimerosal in vaccines, and the WHO endorsed the use of thimerosal in vaccines in 2008."

"In one of the commentaries, Walter A. Orenstein, MD, from Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, and colleagues write, 'Overwhelmingly, the evidence collected over the past 15 years has failed to yield any evidence of significant harm, including serious neurodevelopmental disorders, from use of thimerosal in vaccines.' "

"In another commentary, Louis Z. Cooper, MD, a pediatrician with the College of Physicians and Surgeons at Columbia University, New York City, and Samuel L. Katz, MD, a pediatrician with the School of Medicine at Duke University, Durham, North Carolina, write that the 1999 recommendation was a quick response to a US Food and Drug Administration review of mercury content in biological products after passage of the Food and Drug Modernization Act of 1997. The review authors at that time concluded that the cumulative amount of mercury from vaccines given to young infants 'could potentially' exceed US Environmental Protection Agency guidelines, which had wide safety margins.

At the time, no studies had evaluated whether thimerosal was safe, so the AAP and the US Public Health Service 'were obligated to full public disclosure,' Dr. Cooper and Dr. Katz write. 'Data were not sufficient to explain the pharmacology or toxicology of this product or to compare it with that for the other mercury compounds,' they add, explaining that [t]he priority to "first, do no harm" guides all [US Public Health Service] and AAP recommendations.' "

Had they been working from today's knowledge base, they continue, 'it is inconceivable to us that these organizations would have made the joint statement of July 7, 1999.' "

In other words, if the experts knew in 1999 what they know now, they would not have removed thimerosal from vaccines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
The amount of mercury in the childhood vaccination schedule recommended by the CDC exceeded all national and global maximum safety limits, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the United States Public Health Service called for the immediate removal of Thimerosal from all vaccines on July 7, 1999. But, with the new vaccines I think there is more in them now then before the removal.
The concern was that maximum safety limits could potentially be exceeded. We now know that is not true.

From the link above:

"Had they been working from today's knowledge base, they continue, 'it is inconceivable to us that these organizations would have made the joint statement of July 7, 1999.' "

How could there be "more in them now then [sic] before the removal"? How can zero mercury be more than any other amount? Dang, I learned the concept of zero in elementary school.

Quote:
They are still recommending vaccines with Thimerosal to pregnant women and young children which young children by weight should not be having in conjunction with any other mercury. Plus mercury can cause birth defects, levels to be determined by patient prior. I've never heard a doctor say to a pregnant woman about to get a shot with Mercury, "have you tested to see how much Mercury you are already getting from your diet?" So, people have to take their health into their own hands, which is expected of the consumer.
There are no vaccines with thimerosal "recommended" for pregnant women. The only vaccine a pregnant woman might get with thimerosal is flu vaccine which is available without thimerosal if she is scared of it.

Quote:
And, I might add like others have said it all depends on how much they already have stored in their bodies if they will be injured from it or not. Last time I checked they don't test for that before vaccinating children with H1N1 or any other Thirmerosal containing vaccine. It's pretty much left up to the consumer now (I guess in CA they aren't consumers anymore) to determine safety for them individually for the each product they consume.
The mercury from thimerosal is not stored.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...682-5/abstract

"Administration of vaccines containing thiomersal does not seem to raise blood concentrations of mercury above safe values in infants. Ethylmercury seems to be eliminated from blood rapidly via the stools after parenteral administration of thiomersal in vaccines."

Quote:
In a perfect world it would be the only exposure you're getting but..........no such world.
Great news! You do not have to be exposed to mercury in a vaccine all!!! It is no longer in any children's vaccine and you can even get flu vaccine without it!
 
Old 07-17-2015, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Huh? Cholera is bacterial, which is why it can be treated successfully with antibiotics.
Still the major problem with cholera is dehydration. Whether you treat with antibiotics or not, you have to rehydrate. Why do you have a problem with that?
 
Old 07-17-2015, 09:48 PM
 
25,871 posts, read 49,775,165 times
Reputation: 19320
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
I'm having fried fish tonight. It's delicious. And I have shrimp about 30 times a year, not to mention tuna melts. What I can't believe is someone wants to take absolutely no chances with fish or mercury, but would run a bigger risk of their child dying of a disease that could have been prevented with a vaccine. That's sort of like putting your child in a car wrapped in armor, but not paying attention to whether the driver is drunk or not.
I said I have never eaten fish... nothing more or less.

It is a slippery slope when one assumes....
 
Old 07-17-2015, 09:50 PM
 
Location: The analog world
15,688 posts, read 8,782,580 times
Reputation: 21073
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Still the major problem with cholera is dehydration. Whether you treat with antibiotics or not, you have to rehydrate. Why do you have a problem with that?
I don't have a problem with that. I was just confused by your statement about letting a virus run its course juxtaposed with a reference to cholera, which is a bacterial infection.
 
Old 07-17-2015, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
It's standard for anthrax because when they were making a list of what Cipro could do, someone at Bayer added 'anthrax' to the list, which wasn't done for penicillin or doxycycline. Because of that, the FDA approves Cipro only for anthrax, despite the fact that penicillin and doxycycline will treat it better.




You still don't understand the difference between treating the disease and treating the symptoms, do you? When you treat cholera with fluids, you are treating the symptoms and only giving supportive care, not treating the disease. This is fine, as long as the disease isn't especially virulent and continues to attack the person faster than you can rehydrate them. If that happens, the person with cholera is going to die, no matter how much fluid you give them. And if they're that sick and have that much diarrhea, they're sure not going to feel like eating, so that puts paid to your nutrition attempt.

Try to keep in mind that supporting care was all that was available for the first three or four thousand years of our fight with disease. Think about it: if all your natural remedies work so well, why did we turn to antibiotics and vaccines to begin with? Answer: because they DIDN'T work that well. Thousands of people died. All the time, every day.

And why are you asking if he got the vaccine? Aren't you the one who thinks vaccines are evil?
This treatment came from the CDS and Military... Are you saying that the treatment was wrong even though the military is the one who came up with it.
This goes to show that you don't care about any treatment or prevention. All you care about is that someone "reputable" says that vaccines are "safe and effective"... then there are some who say they aren't safe nor effective... You think they are... Some think they aren't. The pro-choice argument is that we should have a choice what medical procedures we agree to. Do you disagree? Do you think that you should be required to have chemo for a cancer diagnosis?
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:03 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,907 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Do you have any fluorescent light bulbs?
That's what the tin foil hat is for 😏
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:05 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,907 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
I don't have a problem with that. I was just confused by your statement about letting a virus run its course juxtaposed with a reference to cholera, which is a bacterial infection.
If you're anti science there's no difference.
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
However, I am a scientist... I studied extensively in microbiology and biochemistry. Can I replicate the study? No... why? No funding. Even if I wanted to, I don't have the funds. This is a problem with studies. The one who has the most money has the studies.

I can say that when I do the comparison of methyl mercury breakdown in the body due to digestion that it can be safely excreted 90% of the time and I can say that ethyl mercury injected cannot be safely excreted at all, especially when combined with a known brain-blood barrier crosser like polysorbate 80. But who cares what I say... I don't have funding. Funding will never be granted to someone likely to disprove that vaccines are safe and effective.
You "studied extensively in microbiology and biochemstry"? To me, that statement would imply graduate level courses.

Would you care to provide a link supporting your statement, which contradicts what people with demonstrated special knowledge in microbiology and biochemistry are telling us?

Someone did a study with real live babies who got vaccines:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...682-5/abstract

"Administration of vaccines containing thiomersal does not seem to raise blood concentrations of mercury above safe values in infants. Ethylmercury seems to be eliminated from blood rapidly via the stools after parenteral administration of thiomersal in vaccines."

The lead author:

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/peopl...l-e-pichichero

Do you have a bachelor's degree in biology, an MD, a residency in pediatrics, and a fellowship in pediatric infectious disease? Are you triple boarded in pediatrics, pediatric infectious disease, and pediatric allergy and immunology? Oh, throw in a few awards, too, even Phi Beta Kappa and Alpha Omega Alpha (like Phi Beta Kappa for medical school). Those are Dr. Pichichero's credentials. That is someone who has studied microbiology and immunology extensively. Whom should we believe about the way a baby's body handles ethylmercury? You or Dr. Pichichero?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
It's standard for anthrax because when they were making a list of what Cipro could do, someone at Bayer added 'anthrax' to the list, which wasn't done for penicillin or doxycycline. Because of that, the FDA approves Cipro only for anthrax, despite the fact that penicillin and doxycycline will treat it better.
Um, I don't think so.

Anthrax

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
That's sort of like putting your child in a car wrapped in armor, but not paying attention to whether the driver is drunk or not.
I like that one! May I have permission to use it elsewhere?
 
Old 07-17-2015, 10:30 PM
 
25,871 posts, read 49,775,165 times
Reputation: 19320
I guess it may come down to a ballot measure and each side will spend millions to get out the vote...

The thing is each adult citizen has but a single vote... and the non-medical professionals greatly outweigh the medical professionals.

Should be very interesting if enough people are passionate enough to let the voters decide...

Of course the odds will be stacked because the money is on the side of those mandating vaccines...

It is always fascinating to read the disclosures on any ballot measure of those donating for and those against...

I still believe the mandate is a mistake... but what do I know?
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