U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-21-2015, 05:13 PM
 
5,656 posts, read 3,204,284 times
Reputation: 6636

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
I am not suggesting criteria. That was actually the story of my Uncle Jim. I used it as an example. I believe I said I'm speaking in general terms. I am not making policy for end-of-life care, which can come at any age. But that is not anywhere near the same as preventing communicable diseases in the general population. You want to die from pneumonia? Fine. Just cough downwind and wash your hands. And stay away from people. Because what you decide for yourself can affect me. And my loved ones. And aquaintences. And people I don't know. When you make that choice, as for others who make that choice, it is not in a vacuum. Even if you want it to be.
Ah, but you see you think other people, whatever they have ,it is contagious to YOU. You are sneezing from a POLLEN ALLERGY around others? You have a contagious disease. You MUST take something for that so WE will not think you have a contagious disease you can give to US. We saw that paranoia with Ebola last year.

I was friends with a girl growing up back in the 50's who had Michael Jackson's condition. She had patches of lighter spots on her skin. I worked with a child in public school a few years ago who also had that. They were SHUNNED by you people who are so paranoid of catching some deadly disease from other people even when it is not contagious. Do you want others to wear signs, "My allergy/skin condition is not contagious TO YOU! Pitiful. The "perfect human" who does not want to be around the dirty, diseased infected other humans.

There is a video on You Tube you need to see. A man wore a sign saying "I am HIV positive".
"Will you give me a HUG?". The response to that would bring tears to SOME people's eyes. The best was a little girl who went over and gave him a great, big hug. Take that child away from her parents for letting her hug a diseased person. That is YOUR attitude.

Go live on a desert island with the rest of the people who think the way you do.

 
Old 07-21-2015, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You just proved my point. You do not understand that the figure quoted in that letter applies to parenteral - given intravenously - nutrition products, not vaccines.

You continue to insist aluminum from vaccines accumulates. I have shown you repeatedly that it does not. The amount of aluminum in food and water is so much greater than that in vaccines that the amount in vaccines is trivial.

If what Sears says is irrelevant, then so is what you say, because you are making the same error he did about aluminum.
You just demonstrated that you don't understand what parenteral means.

Parenteral s defined as "by means other than through the digestive tract, esp by injection" but can also refer to intravenously.

Therefore an injection is parenteral delivery.

"Approximately 95% of an aluminum load becomes bound to transferrin and albumin intravascularly and is then eliminated renally. In healthy subjects, only 0.3% of orally administered aluminum is absorbed via the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, and the kidneys effectively eliminate aluminum from the human body. Only when the GI barrier is bypassed, such as by intravenous infusion or in the presence of advanced renal dysfunction, does aluminum have the potential to accumulate. As an example, with intravenously infused aluminum, 40% is retained in adults and up to 75% is retained in neonates."

"Aluminum is absorbed from the GI tract in the form of oral phosphate-binding agents (aluminum hydroxide), parenterally via immunizations, via dialysate on patients on dialysis or total parenteral nutrition (TPN) contamination, via the urinary mucosa through bladder irrigation, and transdermally in antiperspirants. Lactate, citrate, and ascorbate all facilitate GI absorption.
If a significant aluminum load exceeds the body's excretory capacity, the excess is deposited in various tissues, including bone, brain, liver, heart, spleen, and muscle. This accumulation causes morbidity and mortality through various mechanisms. "
Medscape: Medscape Access

It is absurd to say that injecting aluminum in very high quantities and bypassing the digestive system is safe. It's not. Whoever told you it is... was selling something.
 
Old 07-21-2015, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,024 posts, read 385,810 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Ah, but you see you think other people, whatever they have ,it is contagious to YOU. You are sneezing from a POLLEN ALLERGY around others? You have a contagious disease. You MUST take something for that so WE will not think you have a contagious disease you can give to US. We saw that paranoia with Ebola last year.

I was friends with a girl growing up back in the 50's who had Michael Jackson's condition. She had patches of lighter spots on her skin. I worked with a child in public school a few years ago who also had that. They were SHUNNED by you people who are so paranoid of catching some deadly disease from other people even when it is not contagious. Do you want others to wear signs, "My allergy/skin condition is not contagious TO YOU! Pitiful. The "perfect human" who does not want to be around the dirty, diseased infected other humans.

There is a video on You Tube you need to see. A man wore a sign saying "I am HIV positive".
"Will you give me a HUG?". The response to that would bring tears to SOME people's eyes. The best was a little girl who went over and gave him a great, big hug. Take that child away from her parents for letting her hug a diseased person. That is YOUR attitude.

Go live on a desert island with the rest of the people who think the way you do.
What? I don't even know what this gibberish means. I think I'm insulted, but it's hard to tell.

I am not paranoid, and I have no idea what could give you that idea. I don't isolate myself from anyone with HIV, diabetes, heart disease, seasonal allergies, etc. I wrote about people who purposefully avoid vaccines and contract the illnesses they are for, and their secondary infections, such as pneumonia. I'm not sure where I said I wouldn't hug an HIV positive person, in fact I know I didn't, and I don't think a child who does should be removed from a home. My goodness, that is some fancy projection there!

I am in no way perfect, but I am intelligent and capable of critical thought. I am also a kind and loving person, and I would thank you to back off of the personal attacks. You have gone a bit too far.
 
Old 07-21-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You just demonstrated that you don't understand what parenteral means.

Parenteral s defined as "by means other than through the digestive tract, esp by injection" but can also refer to intravenously.

Therefore an injection is parenteral delivery.

"Approximately 95% of an aluminum load becomes bound to transferrin and albumin intravascularly and is then eliminated renally. In healthy subjects, only 0.3% of orally administered aluminum is absorbed via the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, and the kidneys effectively eliminate aluminum from the human body. Only when the GI barrier is bypassed, such as by intravenous infusion or in the presence of advanced renal dysfunction, does aluminum have the potential to accumulate. As an example, with intravenously infused aluminum, 40% is retained in adults and up to 75% is retained in neonates."

"Aluminum is absorbed from the GI tract in the form of oral phosphate-binding agents (aluminum hydroxide), parenterally via immunizations, via dialysate on patients on dialysis or total parenteral nutrition (TPN) contamination, via the urinary mucosa through bladder irrigation, and transdermally in antiperspirants. Lactate, citrate, and ascorbate all facilitate GI absorption.
If a significant aluminum load exceeds the body's excretory capacity, the excess is deposited in various tissues, including bone, brain, liver, heart, spleen, and muscle. This accumulation causes morbidity and mortality through various mechanisms. "
Medscape: Medscape Access

It is absurd to say that injecting aluminum in very high quantities and bypassing the digestive system is safe. It's not. Whoever told you it is... was selling something.
I said, " ... the figure quoted in that letter applies to parenteral - given intravenously - nutrition products, not vaccines."

The substance in the letter we were discussing is for parenteral nutrition:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...n%20definition

"Parenteral nutrition, also known as intravenous feeding, is a method of getting nutrition into the body through the veins. While it is most commonly referred to as total parenteral nutrition (TPN), some patients need to get only certain types of nutrients intravenously."

I am sorry you found the interjection of given intravenously confusing.

So you now have gone from saying injected aluminum cannot be excreted from the body ...

http://www.city-data.com/forum/40454233-post3363.html

... to quoting a source that I have already used! What a hoot!

http://www.city-data.com/forum/40455833-post3375.html

As you quoted above, it is intravenous aluminum that may be a problem, especially in the context of the presence of kidney disease. Aluminum deposited in the muscle is handled differently.

Harpocrates Speaks: Demystifying Vaccine Ingredients - Aluminum

"When aluminum exposure occurs via injection, about 60% of the substance is eliminated in the urine within the first day. After about five days, nearly three-quarters of the aluminum is excreted in the urine, with a small amount in the feces. The remaining aluminum is retained in the bone, lungs, kidney, spleen, liver, heart, lymph nodes and brain (in decreasing order of concentration), slowly being excreted from the body over the course of months to years."

"As noted before, aluminum is neurotoxic at very high doses. Whereas healthy individuals can safely consume hundreds of milligrams of aluminum every day without any neurological effects, people with renal dysfunction who undergo prolonged dialysis with aluminum-containing dialysates are at risk for severe, and potentially fatal, complications. In those cases, patients develop what is called "dialysis dementia". Symptoms can include confusion, speech disorders, motor difficulties, and seizures. Dialysis dementia could also lead to coma and even death. The important thing to keep in mind about these neurological effects is that they have only been documented after prolonged, high levels of aluminum exposure in those with renal dysfunction, and primarily when it is injected intravenously, directly into the bloodstream (not orally, not inhaled, not intramuscularly, not subcutaneously). Exposure to normal, everyday levels of aluminum have not been linked to neurotoxicity."

Vaccines do not contain aluminum in "very high doses".

From the same link:

1kg = 1,000g = 1,000,000mg = 1,000,000,000μg

Here are some real-world examples of those weights (technically masses):
1kg = a 1L bottle of soda
1g = a paper clip
1mg = a very, very small snowflake
1μg = take your paper clip, cut it into a million pieces and take one of those

5000 micrograms is 5000 millionths =5 thousandths of the weight of a paper clip.
 
Old 07-21-2015, 09:02 PM
 
Location: here
24,474 posts, read 28,767,996 times
Reputation: 31056
There is no "vaccine controversy." Vaccines save lives. period. It is a fact. I have no patience for science deniers.
 
Old 07-22-2015, 06:41 AM
 
5,656 posts, read 3,204,284 times
Reputation: 6636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
There is no "vaccine controversy." Vaccines save lives. period. It is a fact. I have no patience for science deniers.
Flu shots aren't controversial? If not, then why do less than 50% of the population get them? Far more people die from complications from flu than die from complications from measles.
 
Old 07-22-2015, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,024 posts, read 385,810 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Flu shots aren't controversial? If not, then why do less than 50% of the population get them? Far more people die from complications from flu than die from complications from measles.
I can't speak for the above poster, but I read it as "Vaccines SHOULDN'T be controversial."
 
Old 07-22-2015, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Flu shots aren't controversial? If not, then why do less than 50% of the population get them? Far more people die from complications from flu than die from complications from measles.
There is no vaccine controversy because those who fear and oppose vaccines have no evidence to support their views. The "controversy" is entirely manufactured by the anti-vaccinationists. Physcians and research scientists know that vaccines are safe and effective.
 
Old 07-22-2015, 11:24 AM
 
5,656 posts, read 3,204,284 times
Reputation: 6636
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
There is no vaccine controversy because those who fear and oppose vaccines have no evidence to support their views. The "controversy" is entirely manufactured by the anti-vaccinationists. Physcians and research scientists know that vaccines are safe and effective.
So you are saying that 50% of the general public is listening to "anti-vaxers" and not getting flu shots?

Shut them up and everyone will then get a flu shot? lol

"I got the Flu shot and got the Flu"
"I have never had the Flu so don't need it"
"Never thought about it"
"The Flu is no big deal"

Anti-vaxers are spreading this? I think with Flu shots these people are using their OWN personal experience and not your anti-science websites. Maybe people do not have experience with diseases like measles, and you can scare people with that, but too many people have experienced the flu themselves, and lived to tell about it.

Suzy, sorry, it is not anti-vaxers to blame for low flu vaccinations. It's personal experience.
 
Old 07-22-2015, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,536 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
So you are saying that 50% of the general public is listening to "anti-vaxers" and not getting flu shots?

Shut them up and everyone will then get a flu shot? lol

"I got the Flu shot and got the Flu"
"I have never had the Flu so don't need it"
"Never thought about it"
"The Flu is no big deal"

Anti-vaxers are spreading this? I think with Flu shots these people are using their OWN personal experience and not your anti-science websites. Maybe people do not have experience with diseases like measles, and you can scare people with that, but too many people have experienced the flu themselves, and lived to tell about it.

Suzy, sorry, it is not anti-vaxers to blame for low flu vaccinations. It's personal experience.

No, Jo, it's ignorance that is to blame for the low flu vaccination rate.

People refuse the vaccine because they do believe the vaccine will cause a flu infection. Mercola says so.

People who have never had the flu do not understand that is no guarantee they never will, or "I feed my family a healthy diet and give them herbal immune boosters so we will not get the flu". Mercola will sell you the immune boosters. "If my family gets the flu, I will just treat them with more herbs and vitamin D."

"Never thought about it." Really? Must be a hermit with no contact with the real world.

"The flu is no big deal." Mercola will tell you what you have is not the flu, it's just a cold. "Here, take some garlic and vitamin D Head on over to my online store. I have just what you need."

Every year thousands of people have the flu and do not live to talk about it, including some pregnant women and their unborn babies.

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/20...ritically-ill/

"In the recent California study 14 of the 18 pregnant women who required intensive care admission with influenza had not been vaccinated against the flu (only 1 had been vaccinated and the vaccine status of 3 was unknown)."

Most people who have really had the flu want to never have it again and opt for the vaccine.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top