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Old 08-01-2015, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,506 posts, read 5,265,437 times
Reputation: 4933

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Everything is a crank except your beloved CDC...yes, they have no mission. The US government has never poisoned it's own people or performed illegal drug tests or ever tried to cover anything up...including subverting the real whistle blowers credibility and even killing them...never happened...keep on believing that.

 
Old 08-02-2015, 07:01 AM
 
5,669 posts, read 3,210,029 times
Reputation: 6655
There are only three states (California, West Virginia. Mississippi) which do not have a religious exemption for vaccinations. All the rest do and some still have a philosophical exemption.

Vermont recently ended the philosophical exemption but kept the religious one. If parents do not want to vaccinate their child for the "mandated" HPV vax in Vermont, they can still get a religious exemption.
 
Old 08-02-2015, 08:24 AM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,279,681 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Because none of those other things are behaviors that can harm other people. Mandates are not needed. Increased breastfeeding rates is a worthy goal, but there is no way to mandate breast feeding. We will never attempt to ban alcohol again, but we do mandate that people not drink and drive - because that can injure other people. We do not ban cigarettes, but we do mandate where you cannot smoke them. Bad diets impact only the person with the bad diet. Getting people to eat better and exercise is another worthy goal, but there is no way to mandate diet and exercise.
Again, you are taking things out of context. The point regarding breastfeeding and banning vices and unhealthy foods was made in regards to costs to society and saving lives. Costs to society can't be used as reason for vaccine mandates if they can't be used for other things like the ones I mentioned. Breastfeeding or not though does impact the child's health though and not just the mother.

Quote:
We jolly well can and should mandate vaccines for public school attendance.
Except for the fact that a child with HPV is not in danger of harming anyone in the classroom therefore it's not in line with your reasoning for mandates. HPV is not spread via casual contact and students int he classroom are in no danger from sitting next to someone who has it.



Quote:
I get it. You are just tap dancing around what you said:

"So you are saying that when our vaccination rate goes up, our cases of measles will follow? That is what is happening in Sudan. Vaccinations rate has been steadily rising in Sudan and currently stands at 85%. Measles cases are rising too it seems."

Rodentraiser pointed out that there are areas in this country with even lower vaccination rates than Sudan, showing that the US could be in the same predicament as Sudan if measles is introduced into those low vaccine coverage areas. She never implied that increasing vaccination rates were the cause of the increased number of cases of measles. You definitely implied that is what you think, though: measles vaccine does not work.

It appears you still do not understand that Sudan is struggling to achieve herd immunity.
Why not quote what rodentrasier actually said because that was not it. You just made that up. The above is what you say rodentrasier said and below is actually what she or he said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Keep on the way we're going and this will be the US in another couple of years:
The article didn't even say what you claim rodentraiser said above. Extrapolate much, Suzy?
 
Old 08-02-2015, 10:23 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 749,604 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The flu vaccine is not terribly effective. Last year my daughter did catch the flu. She was in bed for two days. I gave her plenty of fluids along with some homemade soup with natural antivirals in them such as oregano, garlic, onion, etc. as well as supplements. I kept her home from school for a week even though she felt mostly better after day two. No one else in the family caught it. While unpleasant, she was fine. The year prior her two best friends caught the flu and exposed her in school. Both were vaccinated. She did not catch it from them. I have had the flu before. I know what it entails. Despite not having any flu vaccines, I haven't had it in decades. I'm not worried. Any vaccine should be a choice. That includes the flu vaccine.

I'm not a denier of science. Just because you don't agree with my choices does not mean that my choices are not informed, nor does it mean that you have a better grasp of science then I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Actually, my child's experience with the flu was pretty typical for an otherwise healthy child.. No "luck" about it.

I'm not a "denier of science". My decisions are very well informed. Just because I don't feel the need to share every study with you and have you argue about sources and refute this or that with blog posts written by industry shills such as "Orac" and the like does not make your accusations true. This thread is about the freedom to choose. Studies in this thread really don't seem to be all that relevant to the topic of discussion.
Pulling random facts and anecdotes out of context and ignoring thousands of reputable peer reviewed studies? Do you prefer "ignorer of science" "denier of logical risk"?

Three kids' flu experience is NOT science. You may not be worried, anyone with any basic statistical understanding of risk is worried about their health and the health of others when they refuse to provide childhood vaccines to their children. Hopefully they get math tutors for their homeschooled children.

Childhood vaccines save lives, they are safe, they DO NOT cause autism. Thank goodness for the states that are protecting school children by requiring them for admission to schools. A choice not to vaccinate is a choice to homeschool.
 
Old 08-02-2015, 10:28 AM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,279,681 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Pulling random facts and anecdotes out of context and ignoring thousands of reputable peer reviewed studies? Do you prefer "ignorer of science" "denier of logical risk"?

Three kids' flu experience is NOT science. You may not be worried, anyone with any basic statistical understanding of risk is worried about their health and the health of others when they refuse to provide childhood vaccines to their children. Hopefully they get math tutors for their homeschooled children.

Childhood vaccines save lives, they are safe, they DO NOT cause autism. Thank goodness for the states that are protecting school children by requiring them for admission to schools. A choice not to vaccinate is a choice to homeschool.

I'm not the one pulling out random facts out of the air nor am I ignoring "science". It is fact that the vast majority of flu cases are not dangerous. It's also true that the flu vaccine is not terribly effective.
 
Old 08-02-2015, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,398,344 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I'm not the one pulling out random facts out of the air nor am I ignoring "science". It is fact that the vast majority of flu cases are not dangerous. It's also true that the flu vaccine is not terribly effective.
CDC Reports Highest Rate of Senior Flu Hospitalizations in 10

"More seniors were hospitalized with influenza during this year’s flu season than at any time over the past 10 years, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports... A likely reason: The flu vaccine was a bad match for the most common strain of the virus circulating this year — Influenza A (H3N2) — because the virus mutated between the time the vaccine was developed last spring and the start of the flu season last fall."

Scientifically the flu vaccine is highly ineffective.
 
Old 08-02-2015, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,569 posts, read 26,201,545 times
Reputation: 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborgt800 View Post
Everything is a crank except your beloved CDC...yes, they have no mission. The US government has never poisoned it's own people or performed illegal drug tests or ever tried to cover anything up...including subverting the real whistle blowers credibility and even killing them...never happened...keep on believing that.
Let me increase my stake in the aluminum companies. Cyborg needs a bigger tin foil hat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
There are only three states (California, West Virginia. Mississippi) which do not have a religious exemption for vaccinations. All the rest do and some still have a philosophical exemption.

Vermont recently ended the philosophical exemption but kept the religious one. If parents do not want to vaccinate their child for the "mandated" HPV vax in Vermont, they can still get a religious exemption.
Get a religious exemption when they do not really have a religious objection? That is one of the reasons for mandates. People lie about "religion".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Again, you are taking things out of context. The point regarding breastfeeding and banning vices and unhealthy foods was made in regards to costs to society and saving lives. Costs to society can't be used as reason for vaccine mandates if they can't be used for other things like the ones I mentioned. Breastfeeding or not though does impact the child's health though and not just the mother.
What you are saying is the equivalent of declaring that we should not use seat belts because people drown, too. The existence of other public health issues is no reason to stop vaccinating children.

Quote:
Except for the fact that a child with HPV is not in danger of harming anyone in the classroom therefore it's not in line with your reasoning for mandates. HPV is not spread via casual contact and students int he classroom are in no danger from sitting next to someone who has it.
Danger to other students is not the rationale being used by Rhode Island. Their health officials are including it because it is in the best interest of the individual student, choosing to include all the vaccines in the recommended schedule on the list needed to attend school.

Quote:
Why not quote what rodentrasier actually said because that was not it. You just made that up. The above is what you say rodentrasier said and below is actually what she or he said.

The article didn't even say what you claim rodentraiser said above. Extrapolate much, Suzy?
Perhaps rodentraiser will drop by and clarify what she meant if you do not understand it. It was clear to me that her point was that areas of the US with vaccination rates for measles lower than those found in Sudan are potential locations for large measles outbreaks, like those in Sudan.

The article about Sudan shows that an 85% vaccination rate is not high enough to prevent measles outbreaks. You implied that the increased number of measles cases in Sudan is due to the increasing vaccination rate. It's not. Sudan will need a 95% vaccination coverage to get measles under control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I'm not the one pulling out random facts out of the air nor am I ignoring "science". It is fact that the vast majority of flu cases are not dangerous. It's also true that the flu vaccine is not terribly effective.
There is no single "flu vaccine". The vaccine for each season has to be formulated specifically for that season, and the strains used in it chosen specifically for that season. If the viruses that circulate are predominantly the strains in the vaccine, the vaccine will be very effective. If, like during the past year, the vaccine does not match the predominant strain, it will be less effective. The vaccine can only prevent strains included in the vaccine. The (H1N1) 2009 vaccine was highly effective.

The vast majority of flu cases are not dangerous, but there is no way to predict before vaccinating who will get very sick and die or who will just need chicken soup for a few days. By the way, if oregano and garlic and onions can treat flu, I guess no one in Italy ever dies from influenza.

Influenza and its complications kills thousands of people each year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
CDC Reports Highest Rate of Senior Flu Hospitalizations in 10

"More seniors were hospitalized with influenza during this year’s flu season than at any time over the past 10 years, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports... A likely reason: The flu vaccine was a bad match for the most common strain of the virus circulating this year — Influenza A (H3N2) — because the virus mutated between the time the vaccine was developed last spring and the start of the flu season last fall."

Scientifically the flu vaccine is highly ineffective.
Yes, we had a mismatched vaccine this year. The predominant circulating strain was not included in the vaccine. The vaccine does not protect against strains not included in the vaccine.

Scientifically, your understanding of flu vaccine is sadly deficient.
 
Old 08-02-2015, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,506 posts, read 5,265,437 times
Reputation: 4933
So you dismiss everything as tin foil hats? That's weak...care to comment as to the actual validity of my question?

HAS the US Government ever experimented on or drugged/poisoned the population illegally?
 
Old 08-02-2015, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,569 posts, read 26,201,545 times
Reputation: 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborgt800 View Post
So you dismiss everything as tin foil hats? That's weak...care to comment as to the actual validity of my question?

HAS the US Government ever experimented on or drugged/poisoned the population illegally?
When all you have comes from conspiracy web sites it is safe to conclude that you are a conspiracy theorist. The thread is about vaccines. There is no giant international conspiracy to experiment on people with vaccines. Vaccines do not contain poisons.
 
Old 08-02-2015, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,506 posts, read 5,265,437 times
Reputation: 4933
Anything that contradicts your view is from conspiracy sites...you might want to look up the actual definition.

How about I dismiss every site you cite as having an agenda?

Answer the question...HAS the government EVER done that stuff?
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