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Old 08-05-2015, 08:24 AM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,271,345 times
Reputation: 9115

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Are

I don't care - public health policy shouldn't support or encourage stupidity. Obviously the goal isn't to make it convenient to do reckless things to your own children or others. If parents feel strongly enough they will find a way to homeschool but my hope is no one does so their OWN children aren't forced to endure preventable diseases. I don't have faith in an anti-science conspiracy theorists ABILITY to educate their child but that's another challenge their child will have to go through life with.

Just because a choice is difficult doesn't mean it's not a choice. There aren't simpler or smaller words ro help you grasp that very basic concept.

Good to know that your position is that you are for forced vaccinations on people against their will. I wonder what other forced medical interventions you'd support? I wonder why you'd want to live in a country that gave the state power to forcibly inject it's citizens with whatever they say is best. Scary.

 
Old 08-05-2015, 08:26 AM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,271,345 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post

Measles cases in the US did not decline until the 1960s after the vaccine was introduced, but deaths did decline because nutrition was a big factor in children being able to survive the disease. Childhood nutrition (and childhood quality of life) really started to improve around the turn of the century, and nutrition is an enormous factor determining measles survival. This is still hugely relevant today; measles case-mortality rates in Africa are much higher than in the US or UK, for example, and nutrition status is the major predictor. American children in general had better nutrition than British, and that helps account for the earlier drop in measles mortality in the US.
So true. The measles vaccine dropped the number of cases of measles but the death rate from measles was already extremely low pre-vaccination due to improvements in nutrition. The role of nutrition is huge in the prevention of death and complications in diseases like measles.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 08:45 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,728 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Good to know that your position is that you are for forced vaccinations on people against their will. I wonder what other forced medical interventions you'd support? I wonder why you'd want to live in a country that gave the state power to forcibly inject it's citizens with whatever they say is best. Scary.
To deliberately mischaracterize a very very simple statement I made highlights your dishonesty. - I DO NOT NEED anyone with your challenges to restate my views, thank you very much

I repeat (follow along MissTerri). A choice is still a choice even when it's difficult. I'm glad it's difficult. That's different than being forced. Grab a dictionary.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 08:56 AM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,271,345 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
To deliberately mischaracterize a very very simple statement I made highlights your dishonesty. - I DO NOT NEED anyone with your challenges to restate my views, thank you very much

I repeat (follow along MissTerri). A choice is still a choice even when it's difficult. I'm glad it's difficult. That's different than being forced. Grab a dictionary.
It's not a choice, it's coercion.

Quote:
What Is Coercion?
My dictionary (Webster's New Collegiate) defines coerce as:
  1. To restrain or dominate by nullifying individual will;
  2. To compel to an act or choice;
  3. To enforce or bring about by force or threat.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 08:56 AM
 
15,303 posts, read 16,858,284 times
Reputation: 15025
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
So true. The measles vaccine dropped the number of cases of measles but the death rate from measles was already extremely low pre-vaccination due to improvements in nutrition. The role of nutrition is huge in the prevention of death and complications in diseases like measles.
No, it was not *extremely* low. It had dropped, but was still considerable.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 09:38 AM
 
5,653 posts, read 3,202,909 times
Reputation: 6635
Another factor in the decline in measles in the early 60s? Demographics. The population was starting to change. People were having smaller families. You had adults walking with natural immunity, teenagers walking around with natural immunity, probably their younger siblings, etc. Kinda of a natural immunity Herd Immunity. The vast majority of the herd could not get or give measles. It was finding fewer hosts.

A breastfeeding mother would be passing her own natural immunity antibodies (more than from a vaccine) to her baby in her milk. My own Mom did not breastfeed me, which is probably why I got measles and chicken pox under a year old. I did not worry about my own babies catching measles before they were too young to be vaccinated, because it was known even 30+ years ago that a nursing mother would protect her babies with her own antibodies in her milk.

There were many factors involved.

Last edited by Jo48; 08-05-2015 at 09:48 AM..
 
Old 08-05-2015, 09:43 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,728 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
It's not a choice, it's coercion.
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You said it was "forced" = that didn't work so you define a different word... Alrighty then

Bottom line, the mandates are coming.

I hope rigorous mandates protect people in all states and provinces from the stupidity of their neighbors. Want to send your kid to school, get them vaccinated. Don't want to vaccinate, find a posse of other people who don't believe in science and allow them to incubate in the privacy of your home school environment. Find that difficult or inconvenient? Then vaccinate and not only do you not have to homeschool, your kid also won't catch a deadly preventable illness.

You may really really want to send your kid packing a pistol to school. You don't get to. Give him a side arm to carry around while home schooling if you want, but you don't get to send junior to school. Society is about rights balanced against obligations.

Thankfully whining won't change that.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,391,622 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
I've already answered this. But I'll say it again for you: the average parent is not going to sit at home, especially if they already have a job, and home school their kids. You're right, they won't have a choice. If they want their kids to go to school, they'll have to vaccinate them.

The point of mandatory vaccination isn't to drive multitudes of kids to home schooling, it's to get those kids vaccinated. And if they are all vaccinated, people out in society wouldn't have to worry about coming into contact with them, ya think?
So you admit that these mandates take away choice and are coercion. Parents that cannot homeschool, for whatever reason, are being coerced (forced to choose) into vaccinating. Thanks for at least being honest about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Oh, you mean the vaccinated kids that may end up with leukemia or something and have immune systems that can't stand up to measles or chicken pox. You know, like that vaccinated woman in Washington state who died because someone exposed her to measles in the hospital when her immune system couldn't handle the disease.

Asked and answered a while back.
As a resident of WA, the whole case is suspect and full of holes. The report also came months later, the day after the CA mandate. It was discussed thoroughly on another thread.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 10:45 AM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,271,345 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
As a resident of WA, the whole case is suspect and full of holes. The report also came months later, the day after the CA mandate. It was discussed thoroughly on another thread.
That thread got lumped into this one. So far WA state surveillance reports through June show 9 cases in the state and 0 deaths, even though the county where the death occurred said there were 11 cases, the last occurring in April. I guess we'll see if the additional two cases and one death get reported in July stats.
 
Old 08-05-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,728 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you admit that these mandates take away choice and are coercion. Parents that cannot homeschool, for whatever reason, are being coerced (forced to choose) into vaccinating. Thanks for at least being honest about that.

As a resident of WA, the whole case is suspect and full of holes. The report also came months later, the day after the CA mandate. It was discussed thoroughly on another thread.
You're rehashing your conspiracies for the third and forth times on this thread alone. No need to go to others. Every post that has been made by the anti-vax crowd on the last 30 pages has been made multiple times, and the exact same peer reviewed, validated studies are reposted AGAIN so that uninformed conspiracy theories aren't confused with facts. This is at least round three or four of these same ridiculous posts by the same 4-5 posters. I'm frankly entirely perplexed about what it takes to get a thread closed.

Uninfomred opinions and "feelings" aren't equal to facts or science. To be clear no one is responding to change the minds of the 4-5 anti-vax posters here. Hopefully someone isn't distracted by their paranoia and conspiracy theories. Big pharma, government, the media, politicians from every party, every single family doctor, they're all in on it... "It" being preventing deadly diseases in children.

Right.

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