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Old 08-07-2015, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,383,615 times
Reputation: 1690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
More sickness, more profit? Wait, so why would doctors try to vaccinate then? Which statistically drastically reduces disease, shouldn't they be AGAINST vaccination on your logic?

Medical science is ever evolving - agreed, which is why relying on debunked fraudulent studies from years ago and not staying current on the studies that support vaccination is ridiculous.

If I was diagnosed with cancer I would absolutely listen to my oncologist. I would ask questions for sure, but you better believe I wouldn't rely on "google" as equal to that oncologist's specialized training.
If I were diagnosed with cancer, I would get a second and maybe third opinion... Why? Doctor to Be Sentenced for Giving Chemo to Cancer-Free Patients | Fox News Insider

It's been going on for years. Don't blindly accept what a doctor tells you is true.

 
Old 08-07-2015, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,383,615 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You are implying that the quality of instruction in those hours you cite is comparable. It's not.

On the education of chiropractors. Comments by chiropractors:

Final Thoughts

Another chiropractor:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...tic-gimmickry/

By the way, chiropractic colleges spend a good chunk of those hours on business and marketing courses.

You can become a naturopath completely online:

Blue Heron Academy massage, medical assistant and fitness school provides healthcare career training in grand rapids michigan

The education of a chiropractor or naturopath is in no way comparable to that of someone with a Doctor of Medicine degree and a minimum of a three year residency in a specialty - during which 16 hour days are the norms, including weekends.
You are wrong as I pointed out in my post. I attended Bastyr University (the school used in those stats) for my bachelors and met many ND students. One student I met was actually doing a dual degree. He attended both Bastyr and UW. I thought he was insane but well... he seemed fine other than the bags under his eyes. However, I was on the ND track and KNOW what it entails but I was also considering the MD track at UW and KNOW what that entails.

I chose the ND track because of the focus on body wellness through nutrition rather than the focus on symptoms and drugs. The core classes are the same! NDs learn pharma for reference, MDs learn pharma extensively for use. NDs learn nutrition extensively for use, MDs learn nutrition for reference. These little details are what sets the two apart.

The links you provided are as biased as they come! Do you think massage therapy is "quackery?"
 
Old 08-07-2015, 11:55 AM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,192,670 times
Reputation: 6627
Doctors & Nurses: You are Now Legally Liable for Your MMR Vaccine Injections* - Jefferey Jaxen

Cannot hold the vaccine manufacturers responsible? Next in line? SUE the doctors and nurses.

After all, they are the ones pushing and physically vaccinating. lol
 
Old 08-07-2015, 12:26 PM
 
13,472 posts, read 9,593,751 times
Reputation: 17430
There is, in my mind, no vaccine "controversy."

There is scientifically proven, sound medicine that has successfully done something no other form of medicine has done. Used the body's own immune system to completely irradicate a disease out of human existence. Yes. Smallpox.

And then there are crackpot conspiracy theorists.

That does not a controversy make.
 
Old 08-07-2015, 01:30 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,336 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Nobody can come up with scientific evidence linking vaccines to injury or death. That is the problem. Mandating something that's impossible to find cause until hundreds of people are already injured from it over a long term is ridiculous. Yes, we take our chances with a lot of things, like slipping in the bathroom but grow up, these are mandates. We are essentially facing sanctions by our own government like we do to foreign countries that don't follow the rules. Making life harder for those who won't follow the CDC is ludicrous.


To discover this many people had to suffer it first. Sanctioning your own people is gross. IMO. You can argue my opinion all you want, but it won't change the fact that I feel this way. Regardless of your opinion which is all that is.
Repeat post.

We agree that there is no scientific evidence linking vaccines to injury or death.

Opinion (definition) a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint;


I don't care about what your opinion is, it's when you pretend it is other than an "opinion" that those that support science step in. Supporting vaccines is not an opinion, as its "based on facts and knowledge" - in fact it's medically and scientifically proven in thousands of studies. The same studies that over and over again have found no links to injury or death (as you stated above) that anti-science folks "don't care" about. Note that many of these studies set out to find links, and could not do so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
This is the problem, it starts with a certain set then grows. Nobody believes it will stay with just the list these mandates started with here in CA. Everyone knows they will add and add depending on what they want to push regardless of how they have to go about it. RI is an example of this.

It's just opening the door. It's the door that leads to other mandates, for adults and children. Sanctions that make your life difficult to live will be imposed if you don't obey. Bizarre, I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Making criminals out of people who are concerned for their kids is just gross. Most of these parents have had kids with previous reactions after vaccinating. They are just worried about their children. Unbelievable to me this is our new way of life in this country. Government knows best has caused some serious heartache in the past. A lot of things our government once declared safe turned out to be toxic.That apology after the fact gets old.
I hope mandates increase as knowledge of how to improve public health advances. The rest of this is a repeat post, already clearly addressed. You're not criminals, you're making in my OPINION (see what I did there) very foolish and irresponsible choices but hey, that's what we get when we let people choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Well said, Poppy. I share your perspective.
We know you do. Spoiler alert

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Yes, the fact that these mandates will open to the door for the government to be able to over ride people's decisions to make medical choices for themselves and their families is concerning. New vaccines will be added to the list of mandates. If anyone really believes that CA's list will stay exactly the same and nothing new will be added they are very nave. I would bet money that HPV will be added to the mandate list in CA within the next decade. It will go beyond vaccines and eventually some who supported the mandates will find themselves being coerced or forced into doing something that they do not agree with. They will only have themselves to thank for opening that door in the first place. I resent people who are complicit with taking away people's right to say no to injections.
Repeated by you numerous times. Repeating it again just wastes other people's time when you add nothing other than you "really really think it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
It was Suzi actually... Do you even follow the posts? Suzi argued that ND and DCs are not reputable sources but rather "quacks". Terri and I pointed out that they are not quacks. Please make sure to read the chain of replies before responding.
MissTerri was quoted. That was her word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You are wrong as I pointed out in my post. I attended Bastyr University (the school used in those stats) for my bachelors and met many ND students. One student I met was actually doing a dual degree. He attended both Bastyr and UW. I thought he was insane but well... he seemed fine other than the bags under his eyes. However, I was on the ND track and KNOW what it entails but I was also considering the MD track at UW and KNOW what that entails.

I chose the ND track because of the focus on body wellness through nutrition rather than the focus on symptoms and drugs. The core classes are the same! NDs learn pharma for reference, MDs learn pharma extensively for use. NDs learn nutrition extensively for use, MDs learn nutrition for reference. These little details are what sets the two apart.

The links you provided are as biased as they come! Do you think massage therapy is "quackery?"
Hmm self interest. A "ND" defending NDs. The quoted article had many many NDs talking about the profound lack of rigor. Also, as was quoted, most reputable NDs treating children support vaccination as a core component of preventative health. I'm not surprised you want to make the program look more important than it is, I'm more surprised by the candour of grads who truly feel they (and health) weren't served by it.

The difference between the focus on science and data by the naturopath cited above who supports vaccinations and the irrational ramblings of others who claim to be "scientists" is clear.
 
Old 08-07-2015, 01:33 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,192,670 times
Reputation: 6627
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLVgal View Post
There is, in my mind, no vaccine "controversy."

There is scientifically proven, sound medicine that has successfully done something no other form of medicine has done. Used the body's own immune system to completely irradicate a disease out of human existence. Yes. Smallpox.

And then there are crackpot conspiracy theorists.

That does not a controversy make.
Measles rates WERE going down before that vaccine. Why? Natural Immunity. When the majority of the population has already had measles and is immune for LIFE, it needs new hosts not immune. Birthrates go down so fewer and fewer new hosts.
as
It works exactly the same your so called vaccinated Herd Immunity. There are approximately 76 million UNVACCINATED people around you with natural immunity to measles who cannot get it again or give it to YOU. Do you trust that???????

You people refuse to acknowledge that. There are many young parents who do. They would prefer their children catch these "deadly" childhood diseases and get life immunity than risk a chemical vaccination. Not just measles but now "deadly" chicken pox as well. The VAST majority survived these horrible diseases with no complications whatsoever.

Better get rid of cars if you are so afraid of death and dying. Far more people die in car crashes then do, or ever did, from getting measles, etc.
 
Old 08-07-2015, 01:35 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,336 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Doctors & Nurses: You are Now Legally Liable for Your MMR Vaccine Injections* - Jefferey Jaxen

Cannot hold the vaccine manufacturers responsible? Next in line? SUE the doctors and nurses.

After all, they are the ones pushing and physically vaccinating. lol
The opinion of someone who is neither a doctor or a lawyer but rather who is "interested in martial arts" as his claim to expertise. Remember the hundreds of medical links?
 
Old 08-07-2015, 01:36 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,336 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Measles rates WERE going down before that vaccine. Why? Natural Immunity. When the majority of the population has already had measles and is immune for LIFE, it needs new hosts not immune. Birthrates go down so fewer and fewer new hosts.
as
It works exactly the same your so called vaccinated Herd Immunity. There are approximately 76 million UNVACCINATED people around you with natural immunity to measles who cannot get it again or give it to YOU. Do you trust that???????

You people refuse to acknowledge that. There are many young parents who do. They would prefer their children catch these "deadly" childhood diseases and get life immunity than risk a chemical vaccination. Not just measles but now "deadly" chicken pox as well. The VAST majority survived these horrible diseases with no complications whatsoever.

Better get rid of cars if you are so afraid of death and dying. Far more people die in car crashes then do, or ever did, from getting measles, etc.
Repeat post. Already addressed and refuted. Darn science.
 
Old 08-07-2015, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,383,615 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
When you claim to base vaccination decisions on science you lose credibility by including chiropractors and naturopaths as sources.

Yep, Japan has quacks, too. Quackery has no respect for international boundaries. Japanese quacks are even called out by Japanese infectious disease experts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
MissTerri was quoted. That was her word.
It was suzy that used DCs and NDs as not credible then said Japan has quacks too.. I think MissTerri was responding to that inference that DCs and NDs are quacks... That was suzy's word which MissTerri used. Please keep up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Hmm self interest. A "ND" defending NDs. The quoted article had many many NDs talking about the profound lack of rigor. Also, as was quoted, most reputable NDs treating children support vaccination as a core component of preventative health. I'm not surprised you want to make the program look more important than it is, I'm more surprised by the candour of grads who truly feel they (and health) weren't served by it.

The difference between the focus on science and data by the naturopath cited above who supports vaccinations and the irrational ramblings of others who claim to be "scientists" is clear.
I am not an ND, I had to stop at my bachelors because I had 4 kids home at the time and they needed me to be home more often. However, there are some NDs and DCs that don't recommend vaccination just as there are some MDs that don't recommend vaccination. The ND program is as rigorous as the MD program. That is a fact. Only the focus is different. On average, if you see an ND they will spend an hour with you discussing your health and coming up with solutions to your symptoms. In contrast, a doctor will spend 10-15 minutes then prescribe medicine or labs. The rest of your time with the MD clinic is spent waiting or with a nurse.

NDs are very credible and educated.

Last edited by katjonjj; 08-07-2015 at 02:06 PM.. Reason: clarifying that I still have 4 kids but not all are at home now. LOL
 
Old 08-07-2015, 01:56 PM
 
13,472 posts, read 9,593,751 times
Reputation: 17430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Measles rates WERE going down before that vaccine. Why? Natural Immunity. When the majority of the population has already had measles and is immune for LIFE, it needs new hosts not immune. Birthrates go down so fewer and fewer new hosts.
as
It works exactly the same your so called vaccinated Herd Immunity. There are approximately 76 million UNVACCINATED people around you with natural immunity to measles who cannot get it again or give it to YOU. Do you trust that???????

You people refuse to acknowledge that. There are many young parents who do. They would prefer their children catch these "deadly" childhood diseases and get life immunity than risk a chemical vaccination. Not just measles but now "deadly" chicken pox as well. The VAST majority survived these horrible diseases with no complications whatsoever.

Better get rid of cars if you are so afraid of death and dying. Far more people die in car crashes then do, or ever did, from getting measles, etc.
I'm going to reply to this post, just to point out a couple of things.

I am immune to measles. I was double checked for immunity back in 1992 when I had my son. Doctors said I must have been been exposed to it and had a sub clinical Undiagnosed case as a child. Therefore I am not worried about catching it, as you assumed in your reply.

My son came home covered in motor oil as a toddler from hanging out in an industrial garage with his dad all day. He roamed the backyard. I kept having to tell him to quit eating bugs and stuff. He's 24 now. So no. I think your assumptions about me being afraid for my kid in your weird banning cars statement is a bit off.

I don't even know how to address that falling birthdate comment? Seriously WTF has that got to do with vaccinations.

So lastly "us people" as you refer to "us" (I can only assume you mean rational people) have data , results, success, and history. You guys have.....group hysteria.
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