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Old 08-10-2015, 12:22 PM
 
9,568 posts, read 5,764,693 times
Reputation: 9637

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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
What? You know, just taking the opposite stance isn't the same as thoughtful debate.
If you think that paps are too invasive then you don't have to get them. There are no mandates for paps. I personally don't think they are a big deal at all. Even if you get the HPV vaccine you are still supposed to get paps. It's not like getting the HPV vaccine negates the need for paps so not sure what the argument is about.

Quote:
Pap smears NOT invasive? It's the very definition! I mean, the exact definition of invasive. Literally. Yes, one should still get them after getting the HPV vax. But the chances of one needing to get a biopsy, have a tumor removed, which are MUCH more invasive, are tiny.
Having a needle filled with toxins and other questionable ingredients injected into ones body is far more invasive then a 3 minute pap smear. My opinion of course. Remember that there are no mandates for pap smears, only for vaccines. You have a choice not to get a pap but the teenagers in RI do not have a choice to forgo the HPV vaccine if they wish to retain their right to a public education.

Quote:
Your personal belief does not negate the lack of verifiable, authentic, real severe reactions that can be directly linked to the vaccine. If these widespread reactions were real, they would be happening in our communities constantly. They would be observable and verifiable. They aren't. They just aren't.
If you want to ignore the hundreds of stories regarding severe reactions, that is your choice. You, however should not force vaccinations on those in the form of school mandates, especially for things that can't be caught in the classroom.

 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,506 posts, read 5,468,767 times
Reputation: 4935
The fact is just because some government funded "scientist" reaches a conclusion, does not mean they don't have an agenda...nor does it mean I trust them or their paper.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:31 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 790,989 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborgt800 View Post
The fact is just because some government funded "scientist" reaches a conclusion, does not mean they don't have an agenda...nor does it mean I trust them or their paper.
So you don't support government funded science, or industry funded science. So basically, you don't support science? EVERYONE has an agenda "Cyborg", I just don't think preventing children from dying is a terrible agenda...
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,558 posts, read 1,749,475 times
Reputation: 4567
There are always plenty of agendas, here is a well known one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21

I couldn't dream of a more effective "population control" device than what is made possible by mandatory "vaccines". When I write "population control"...I mean control...in every way,


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborgt800 View Post
The fact is just because some government funded "scientist" reaches a conclusion, does not mean they don't have an agenda...nor does it mean I trust them or their paper.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,558 posts, read 1,749,475 times
Reputation: 4567
In your world, I suppose that 2 + 2 = 5? Or 6? I'd have to think hard about a greater leap in logic than what is found here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
So you don't support government funded science, or industry funded science. So basically, you don't support science?
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:36 PM
 
9,568 posts, read 5,764,693 times
Reputation: 9637
You still won't answer my question tlvancouver? What is your reason for supporting HPV vaccine mandates for school entry? I've asked several times yet you refuse to answer. It seems like a pretty simple question.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,187 posts, read 457,031 times
Reputation: 2499
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I think you are too wrapped up in fear. I and several of my friends have had LEEP procedures done and while not comfortable they were not similar to cancer treatment by any stretch. Abnormal cells happen. Still a low chance of cancer especially with yearly paps. The hpv vax wouldn't rid women of this. If it offers hope of some protection, and we will have to wait years to see if it works for any strains, great. If a women feel it's worth the risk of immediate side effects then go for it. But I do not believe it's worth mandating it for pre teens. That's just a money maker in my opinion.
I find this to be insulting and condescending. Please read what I have stated above. I am NOT "wrapped up in fear." I don't care what you believe. I am rational and able to respond to fact.

And for the love of all that is holy and good in this world, stop with the "it's no big deal for anyone because it was no big deal to me." Sometimes things are big deals, and you do NOT get to choose what is or is not big to someone else. MY LEEP was painful, it took a great deal of time to recover, I had complications, and I had to have quarterly paps for 3 years, including 3 more biopsies. I was also very young, just 26, and scared out of my mind. It was awful. Do not tell me it wasn't a big deal. Glad you were able to jitterbug 15 minutes after yours. I was not. I know my experience was not the norm. Maybe you need to allow that things like that happen. It's not "nothing." It's "something."

This attitude ticks me off. It's the height of selfishness and self-interest.

I know I look at things differently. I come from a long line of different thinkers. I am actually concerned with the good of "all." Not only myself and what I think applies to me personally. It is something that I feel very strongly about, too. Vaccines do more good than harm. That is a verifiable fact. I don't "feel" it, I don't just "believe" it. There is sciency stuff to back that up--facts and studies and data and such. It is in the best interest of humanity as a whole to be vaccinated.

Sometimes these "harmless" infections can be extraordinarily harmful--the more people infected, the more likely serious cases will occur.

You know what else?

VAERS data cannot stand on its own to refute scientific facts.
"Herd immunity" will never cover 100% of the population--that's not what it means.
"Natural immunity" means someone was actually exposed to a pathogen and got sick or was asymptomatic, not that they were in a room with the pathogen & now will never get sick.
Getting certain illnesses (like measles) can actually lower your body's immunity to other pathogens.
The flu shot won't "give you the flu."
Sometimes pre-teens and teens faint when they get shots, regardless of what kind they are.
A sore arm is a negative reaction to a vaccine, but is not serious.
Sometimes we do things for the common good--and they actually benefit ourselves too.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 790,989 times
Reputation: 2377
Okay, MissTerri, how about we agree and I concede unequivocally to your opinions:

First, you don't like vaccines. Would you stop posting that same fact?

We will also concede that you really really believe that people should be allowed to choose.

So will you stop reciting that same mantra?

You also think that school mandates that require vaccines to attend public and private schools are overreaching and the pressure they put on parents means those are not real "choices". Got it. I totally will unequivocally agree that you think that.

Finally you REALLY don't like HPV vaccines because there have been stories of girls that were hyperventilating, you don't think it's necessary, and you don't think it's been studied quite enough.

Have I missed anything?
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,506 posts, read 5,468,767 times
Reputation: 4935
Do you believe the doctors and scientists that the tobacco industry employs to say tobacco is safe? Hey they're scientists...who are you to disagree?
 
Old 08-10-2015, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,187 posts, read 457,031 times
Reputation: 2499
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You still won't answer my question tlvancouver? What is your reason for supporting HPV vaccine mandates for school entry? I've asked several times yet you refuse to answer. It seems like a pretty simple question.
I would never presume to answer for the above poster, but my answer is this: Because that's the at-risk population.
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