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Old 08-10-2015, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,506 posts, read 5,261,442 times
Reputation: 4933

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They are proven by bought and paid for "evidence"...

 
Old 08-10-2015, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,557,052 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
I find this to be insulting and condescending. Please read what I have stated above. I am NOT "wrapped up in fear." I don't care what you believe. I am rational and able to respond to fact.

And for the love of all that is holy and good in this world, stop with the "it's no big deal for anyone because it was no big deal to me." Sometimes things are big deals, and you do NOT get to choose what is or is not big to someone else. MY LEEP was painful, it took a great deal of time to recover, I had complications, and I had to have quarterly paps for 3 years, including 3 more biopsies. I was also very young, just 26, and scared out of my mind. It was awful. Do not tell me it wasn't a big deal. Glad you were able to jitterbug 15 minutes after yours. I was not. I know my experience was not the norm. Maybe you need to allow that things like that happen. It's not "nothing." It's "something."

This attitude ticks me off. It's the height of selfishness and self-interest.

I know I look at things differently. I come from a long line of different thinkers. I am actually concerned with the good of "all." Not only myself and what I think applies to me personally. It is something that I feel very strongly about, too. Vaccines do more good than harm. That is a verifiable fact. I don't "feel" it, I don't just "believe" it. There is sciency stuff to back that up--facts and studies and data and such. It is in the best interest of humanity as a whole to be vaccinated.

Sometimes these "harmless" infections can be extraordinarily harmful--the more people infected, the more likely serious cases will occur.

You know what else?

VAERS data cannot stand on its own to refute scientific facts.
"Herd immunity" will never cover 100% of the population--that's not what it means.
"Natural immunity" means someone was actually exposed to a pathogen and got sick or was asymptomatic, not that they were in a room with the pathogen & now will never get sick.
Getting certain illnesses (like measles) can actually lower your body's immunity to other pathogens.
The flu shot won't "give you the flu."
Sometimes pre-teens and teens faint when they get shots, regardless of what kind they are.
A sore arm is a negative reaction to a vaccine, but is not serious.
Sometimes we do things for the common good--and they actually benefit ourselves too.
So funny that first paragraph of yours sums up what parents whos children suffering side effects from vaccines would say to you about mandates, I guess its only important to consider these variables when it regards you. I beg to differ. You were insulted by my comments, that mimic your own regarding parents against mandates. Did I sound insensitive? Doesn't feel so great does it. Your insecurities are the same as kids who've suffered side effects. Parents should have a choice of taking that chance with another one of their kids, or worse yet the same child. You people make me sick.

VAERS is exactly how they find clusters of injury, reporting to VAERS is participating in the science that finds a relationship. How on earth do you think they find out?
Unfortunately, they find it after numerous injuries or deaths, not prior. Related science is only seen as viable if the numbers surrounding injuries are large enough but that doesn't mean there is no relationship to the vaccine. It only means its didn't effect enough people to worry about unless like you, it's your child and it effected them differently than the norm. Then of course they care as the parents of a newly disabled kid.

Thank you fir provided proof that mandates for vaccines should be thrown in the garbage can.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 03:23 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,907 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
So funny that first paragraph of yours sums up what parents whos children suffering side effects from vaccines would say to you about mandates, I guess its only important to consider these variables when it regards you. I beg to differ. You were insulted by my comments, that mimic your own regarding parents against mandates. Did I sound insensitive? Doesn't feel so great does it. Your insecurities are the same as kids who've suffered side effects. Parents should have a choice of taking that chance with another one of their kids, or worse yet the same child. You people make me sick.

VAERS is exactly how they find clusters of injury, reporting to VAERS is participating in the science that finds a relationship. How on earth do you think they find out?
Unfortunately, they find it after numerous injuries or deaths, not prior. Related science is only seen as viable if the numbers surrounding injuries are large enough but that doesn't mean there is no relationship to the vaccine. It only means its didn't effect enough people to worry about unless like you, it's your child and it effected them differently than the norm. Then of course they care as the parents of a newly disabled kid.

Thank you fir provided proof that mandates for vaccines should be thrown in the garbage can.
OPINION: This is rambling and incoherent.

OPINION: Parents with kids that are disabled want to blame vaccines. That doesn't make it true. I'm sorry about your child but your ongoing and unproven desire to blame vaccines and not genetics isn't supported by any data.

FACT: The miniscule odds of a severe adverse reaction (while sad) are exponentially less than the benefits to both the individual being vaccinated and society. One in a million chance of severe adverse reaction to vaccines, up to 14 different life threatening illnesses prevented (not just in the vaccinated but also in the immune compromised).
 
Old 08-10-2015, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,023 posts, read 385,382 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
My sywqarcasm emoticon wasn't used properly - I actually didn't think you were
Oh, no. I totally got you. For as many times I've been called a shill of Big Pharma, I just wish I could have the profit from it! You get me. I know that!
 
Old 08-10-2015, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,023 posts, read 385,382 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
So funny that first paragraph of yours sums up what parents whos children suffering side effects from vaccines would say to you about mandates, I guess its only important to consider these variables when it regards you. I beg to differ. You were insulted by my comments, that mimic your own regarding parents against mandates. Did I sound insensitive? Doesn't feel so great does it. Your insecurities are the same as kids who've suffered side effects. Parents should have a choice of taking that chance with another one of their kids, or worse yet the same child.You people make me sick.

VAERS is exactly how they find clusters of injury, reporting to VAERS is participating in the science that finds a relationship. How on earth do you think they find out?
Unfortunately, they find it after numerous injuries or deaths, not prior. Related science is only seen as viable if the numbers surrounding injuries are large enough but that doesn't mean there is no relationship to the vaccine. It only means its didn't effect enough people to worry about unless like you, it's your child and it effected them differently than the norm. Then of course they care as the parents of a newly disabled kid.

Thank you fir provided proof that mandates for vaccines should be thrown in the garbage can.
No, "you people" are making everyone else sick.

There are medical exceptions to mandates. If someone has an allergy to an ingredient, there is an exception. If someone had a significant reaction previously, there is an exception. "I feel" & "I believe" are not going to work.

If you bother to read anything I've written, you will see an enormous amount of sympathy for those that have suffered loss on both sides of the argument.

And, once more: VAERS data doesn't mean what you appear to think it means. Self-reported data does not prove cause and effect. Data from VAERS cannot stand alone, cannot be used without further investigation. A death reported to VAERS does not mean the individual died because of the vaccine. It means death occurred around the time the vaccine was given. One more time--that does not prove the vaccine caused the death.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 04:26 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,273,203 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
So funny that first paragraph of yours sums up what parents whos children suffering side effects from vaccines would say to you about mandates, I guess its only important to consider these variables when it regards you. I beg to differ. You were insulted by my comments, that mimic your own regarding parents against mandates. Did I sound insensitive? Doesn't feel so great does it. Your insecurities are the same as kids who've suffered side effects. Parents should have a choice of taking that chance with another one of their kids, or worse yet the same child. You people make me sick.

VAERS is exactly how they find clusters of injury, reporting to VAERS is participating in the science that finds a relationship. How on earth do you think they find out?
Unfortunately, they find it after numerous injuries or deaths, not prior. Related science is only seen as viable if the numbers surrounding injuries are large enough but that doesn't mean there is no relationship to the vaccine. It only means its didn't effect enough people to worry about unless like you, it's your child and it effected them differently than the norm. Then of course they care as the parents of a newly disabled kid.

Thank you fir provided proof that mandates for vaccines should be thrown in the garbage can.
Exactly.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 04:31 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,273,203 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
There are medical exceptions to mandates. If someone has an allergy to an ingredient, there is an exception. If someone had a significant reaction previously, there is an exception. "I feel" & "I believe" are not going to work.
What if your child has a reaction to the vaccine before you as a parent even know that they would need an exemption? What if your child is one of the people seriously injured from a vaccine? What if you were one the parents writing about your daughter who was injured from the HPV vaccine and no one would listen. Do those people even matter to those pushing mandates? It doesn't seem like they do.

Quote:
If you bother to read anything I've written, you will see an enormous amount of sympathy for those that have suffered loss on both sides of the argument.
Yet you still wish to take away choice.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,023 posts, read 385,382 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
What if your child has a reaction to the vaccine before you as a parent even know that they would need an exemption? What if your child is one of the people seriously injured from a vaccine? What if you were one the parents writing about your daughter who was injured from the HPV vaccine and no one would listen. Do those people even matter to those pushing mandates? It doesn't seem like they do.

Yet you still wish to take away choice.
I WAS one of those people who had what's categorized as a severe reaction. I understand that better than you do, I'll bet. Even so, after all my research, I'm confident in the safety. I believe the risk of an unvaccinated public are greater than the risks of vaccination itself. And I believe that because of scientific fact.

You are pushing choice without consequence. I don't agree with that because you are not taking into account those who depend on herd immunity or those who will not be vaccinated due to laziness or neglect. Those who truly believe that vaccinations are harmful will have to make a hard CHOICE.

You can keep trying to paint me as a cold hearted Big Pharma sheep, it simply is not true. Sorry.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 05:00 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,273,203 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
I WAS one of those people who had what's categorized as a severe reaction. I understand that better than you do, I'll bet. Even so, after all my research, I'm confident in the safety. I believe the risk of an unvaccinated public are greater than the risks of vaccination itself. And I believe that because of scientific fact.
You had a severe reaction and you decided that you would like to continue with vaccination. Would you tell someone who's child had a severe reaction that they had to continue with vaccinations because that is what worked best for you? Would you push that for all vaccines, even HPV, rotavirus, flu? No choice? What vaccine gave you a serious reaction?

Quote:
You are pushing choice without consequence. I don't agree with that because you are not taking into account those who depend on herd immunity or those who will not be vaccinated due to laziness or neglect. Those who truly believe that vaccinations are harmful will have to make a hard CHOICE.
Right, that is what true choice is. Most people get vaccinated. Choice works.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,023 posts, read 385,382 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You had a severe reaction and you decided that you would like to continue with vaccination. Would you tell someone who's child had a severe reaction that they had to continue with vaccinations because that is what worked best for you? Would you push that for all vaccines, even HPV, rotavirus, flu? No choice? What vaccine gave you a serious reaction?

Right, that is what true choice is. Most people get vaccinated. Choice works.
Sigh. It was pertussis. If someone had the reaction I had, she would qualify for a medical exemption. But after 30 years, and a lot of research, and the informed advice of my doctor, I got my pertussis vaccination, because it was the smart thing to do.

My point was that I had a very real reason for doing the research and looking very closely at the real facts.

So now it's not a choice unless it's completely unfettered? Nope, sorry. Cannot do that. Living in our world means compromise and responsibility. Remember--freedom isn't free. So, for those parents who feel very strongly about it, they are going to face a hard CHOICE. And it is a choice. Even if you don't like it.
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