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Old 08-12-2015, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,794,198 times
Reputation: 6371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Juram, you do know that other than Influenza, that Pertussis vaccination is very ineffective and requires boosters not only for adolescents, but adults as well.



Once again you're stating the obvious and acting as if its some sort of Eureka! moment. Vaccines are not 100% effective, that is well known, however having more people vaccinated is a proven way to control these diseases. The article about the study that I linked on the previous page shows just that, that states with the most strict vaccine mandates had the lowest numbers of vaccine preventable diseases while those with a bevy of exemptions had significantly higher rates of whooping cough, measles and other diseases.






Quote:
One vaccination in early childhood is not going to give you your heard immunity for life.
Neither will a naturally occurring infection. And its herd immunity, not heard.

Duration of immunity against pertussis after natural infection or vaccination. - PubMed - NCBI



Quote:
A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 year

Last edited by Juram; 08-12-2015 at 04:23 PM..

 
Old 08-13-2015, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Washington state
4,680 posts, read 2,299,411 times
Reputation: 13657
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Except that it's not 100% effective... A little vaccinated so-and-so may be infected and spread it.
But if the majority of other children ARE vaccinated, we don't have to worry about the one or two whose vaccinations didn't take!


Quote:
Why not keep your child who has cancer away from big crowds or at least protected with a mask, that's what I would do!
If you think you're going to protect your child from viruses with a mask, you are delusional. And you certainly show that you know absolutely nothing about viruses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post

As far as Pertussis, THAT is your major problem. Vaccinating 100% of children won't solve that because of waning immunity over time with that vaccination.
Which is why they recommend boosters. I had mine, how about you?

Quote:

Absolutely NONE of your mandatory childhood vaccination works as far as the FLU is concerned.
Well, God, I certainly hope not! Flu is flu, not measles, not chicken pox, not mumps, not diphtheria, not whooping cough, not rabies, etc, etc, etc.

You didn't know this already? I knew this in grade school.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 06:39 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
The majority of children already are vaccinated, rodentrasier. Mandates are not going to do much at all in terms of increasing compliance.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 07:20 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,574 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The majority of children already are vaccinated, rodentrasier. Mandates are not going to do much at all in terms of increasing compliance.
FACT: Except your wrong. The data from the states with fewer exemptions proves that.

But I'm curious, if you think this affects very few people, why are you so twisted about it?
 
Old 08-13-2015, 07:32 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
FACT: Except your wrong. The data from the states with fewer exemptions proves that.

But I'm curious, if you think this affects very few people, why are you so twisted about it?
I didn't say that it will only "effect very few people". I said that the majority of children are already vaccinated. People will be punished for not complying by losing access to public school. Some people will comply even though they are against it because they can't afford to lose access to public school. Many will homeschool. The small number of those who will comply will not make a significant dent in the vaccination rate which is already pretty darn high.

CA is a different place then MS or W VA. It's not an even comparison.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,794,198 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The majority of children already are vaccinated, rodentrasier. Mandates are not going to do much at all in terms of increasing compliance.

Nothing about this comment has any basis in reality.

The states with the strictest vaccine mandates also have by far the highest rates of vaccination statewide. California has an overall vaccination rate of about 92% but 50% or less in several areas. Mississippi has an overall vaccination rate of 99.5% and the rates are fairly uniform all throughout the state because there are no exemptions other than for legit medical purposes which have to verified by a physician and then the state Department of Health which verifies the legitimacy of the claim.


If you don't think that this new California law will increase vaccination rates across the state much more uniformly, you're only lying to yourself. The reality is that most parents will end up making the rational choice and getting their kids vaccinated, the diehards will either homeschool their kids or move out of state, eitherway they are a small minority of a small minority.

The largest portion of the anti-vaxx crowd, the fencesitters and the run-alongs I think will largely comply with the new requirements. As long as inaction was tolerated, they could simply pass the buck on and have their kids "hide in the herd" as several prominent anti-vaxxers have supported. Now that an actual choice has to be made, I think people will opt to do the vaccinations, keep their kids in school and deal with the fallout from their much more radical anti-vaxx neighbors.



Once things settle down in California and people see that this mandate isn't the end of the world, once we see more outbreaks of diseases such as measles and pertussis in places like Colorado(80% vaccination rate), I think these mandates will begin appearing in more and more states.

Last edited by Juram; 08-13-2015 at 10:48 AM..
 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,794,198 times
Reputation: 6371
Where the vaccine preventable disease outbreaks are happening in the U.S.


 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:36 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Once things settle down in California and people see that this mandate isn't the end of the world, once we see more outbreaks of diseases such as measles and pertussis in places like Colorado(80% vaccination rate), I think these mandates will begin appearing in more and more states.
Even if the vaccination rate for pertussis was 100% we would still see outbreaks of pertussis. That's a fact.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,022 posts, read 383,875 times
Reputation: 2322
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Even if the vaccination rate for pertussis was 100% we would still see outbreaks of pertussis. That's a fact.
Do you believe that if the vaccination rate for pertussis was 100% (which is only theoretical, because it can't happen), we'd see the same number of cases of pertussis as we're seeing today? I'd like to know your answer to that specific question.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 01:24 PM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
Do you believe that if the vaccination rate for pertussis was 100% (which is only theoretical, because it can't happen), we'd see the same number of cases of pertussis as we're seeing today? I'd like to know your answer to that specific question.
It's highly possible. There is credible evidence that the pertussis bacteria has mutated which means that the current vaccine may not even be working anyway. There is also evidence that the immunity from the vaccine is fleeting and wears off quickly. Is Whooping Cough Vaccine Working? | KPBS
Frits R Mooi

As for how I think pertussis vaccination should be handled would be to strongly encourage families of newborns to get the pertussis vaccination as opposed to mandating school children since infants are most at risk. This is called cocooning. The pertussis vaccine would still be on the list for required vaccines but with room for exemptions (medical, religious, philosophical). You'd still see a high rate of pertussis vaccination among school children and you'd also see a higher rate among families with newborns who would be more motivated to get the vaccine. That would be my suggestion. I suspect that even among those who may not vaccinate for everything on schedule, pertussis tops the list of vaccines that many who are labelled "anti-vaxxers" actually do vaccinate for.
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