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Old 08-14-2015, 11:09 AM
 
6,366 posts, read 3,579,235 times
Reputation: 7285

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Didn't for the first birth. So why for the second? My daughter didn't get a Tdap, or Flu shot herself, nor did most of the family.

Do you assume that it is ONLY young parents (but vaccinating themselves??) who are anti-vaxers? Childless Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents cannot be also?

If a family is in agreement, there is no problem. Anyone who isn't can go get themselves vaccinated if they choose to do so.

 
Old 08-14-2015, 12:42 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 794,638 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Didn't for the first birth. So why for the second? My daughter didn't get a Tdap, or Flu shot herself, nor did most of the family.

Do you assume that it is ONLY young parents (but vaccinating themselves??) who are anti-vaxers? Childless Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents cannot be also?

If a family is in agreement, there is no problem. Anyone who isn't can go get themselves vaccinated if they choose to do so.
Wonder if you all will feel differently if your grandchild is cursed with mere mortal immunity, like a statistically average child instead of the immunity you go on about.

Although I don't wish ill on any child, this conduct in the face of safe vaccines is the equivalent of letting your child play in traffic because they might bruise themselves on a fence that would keep them safe.

The more I read your posts, the stronger my support for mandates. No well reasoned appeal to responsibility will be successful in the face of irrationality.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 12:57 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 3,579,235 times
Reputation: 7285
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Wonder if you all will feel differently if your grandchild is cursed with mere mortal immunity, like a statistically average child instead of the immunity you go on about.

Although I don't wish ill on any child, this conduct in the face of safe vaccines is the equivalent of letting your child play in traffic because they might bruise themselves on a fence that would keep them safe.

The more I read your posts, the stronger my support for mandates. No well reasoned appeal to responsibility will be successful in the face of irrationality.
I think maybe you should listen to this Congressman from Florida, not Kalifornia.

The Links between Vaccines and Autism: Congressman Bill Posey Calls For Investigation Of CDC Whistleblower William Thompson | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Do you think he will be voting for his fellow Florida Congresswoman's Vaccinate All Children Act?

In hindsight reading all this information today, it really makes me wonder if my older daughter's ADHD and younger daughter's LD as children came from the MMR vax they got over 30 years ago?

Knowing today what I know about these vaccines, I would never have vaccinated my own children back then for what I did, let alone what they vaccinate kids for today.

As far as adults are concerned, there is not a damned thing you can do to an adult. You would have to institute Martial Law for that. I most DEFINITELY am not going to get ANY of them for my elderly self.

Think about this. If the movement was not spreading, do you really think there would even be the need for all this MANDATORY legislation? The more you try to legislate, the more backlash, and speading of the movement, you will create.

Yes, my dear, putting any science aside, you start trying to mandate medical treatment you ARE going to have a price to pay for it. Americans love their freedoms far too much.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 01:12 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 794,638 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I think maybe you should listen to this Congressman from Florida, not Kalifornia.

The Links between Vaccines and Autism: Congressman Bill Posey Calls For Investigation Of CDC Whistleblower William Thompson | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Do you think he will be voting for his fellow Florida Congresswoman's Vaccinate All Children Act?

In hindsight reading all this information today, it really makes me wonder if my older daughter's ADHD and younger daughter's LD as children came from the MMR vax they got over 30 years ago?

Knowing today what I know about these vaccines, I would never have vaccinated my own children back then for what I did, let alone what they vaccinate kids for today.

As far as adults are concerned, there is not a damned thing you can do to an adult. You would have to institute Martial Law for that. I most DEFINITELY am not going to get ANY of them for my elderly self.

Think about this. If the movement was not spreading, do you really think there would even be the need for all this MANDATORY legislation? The more you try to legislate, the more backlash, and speading of the movement, you will create.

Yes, my dear, putting any science aside, you start trying to mandate medical treatment you ARE going to have a price to pay for it. Americans love their freedoms far too much.
Ah, so finally we have it.

All this choice mumbo jumbo you have been spouting is a cover for anti-vax rhetoric.

The link you posted rehashes conspiracies that have been unequivocally disproven and debunked in no less than 20 posts in this thread. If you've actually been reading you know that.

Your kids learning disabilities are vastly more likely to be caused by genetics... Sorry, I know how proud you are of those. There are no links between vaccines and what's wrong with your kids, even if it might absolve heredity.

Mandates work, that's a good thing. Keeping kids from contracting preventable illnesses is good public health policy. You can help your kids homeschool your grandchildren. Just bring someone else in to cover science (and statistics).
 
Old 08-14-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,210 posts, read 464,965 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Didn't for the first birth. So why for the second? My daughter didn't get a Tdap, or Flu shot herself, nor did most of the family.

Do you assume that it is ONLY young parents (but vaccinating themselves??) who are anti-vaxers? Childless Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents cannot be also?

If a family is in agreement, there is no problem. Anyone who isn't can go get themselves vaccinated if they choose to do so.
I have another question: Do you purposely obfuscate subjects? You are assuming an agenda before you give an answer, I think. I am not making any assumptions. I am asking about your personal response, not a social profile of anti-vaxxers. What gave you the idea that I think only young parents don't vaccinate?

If a family is in agreement that it's okay to leave a baby in the car while running into a store, does that make it safe? No, of course not. For so many reasons.

Just because baby 1 didn't get sick, doesn't mean that baby 2 won't. It all depends upon whether someone in contact with an unprotected infant is infected. Not anything to do with a magical bubble that protects Jo48's family. No infection, no problem. The problem comes when someone IS infected. Which can happen to unprotected individuals, regardless of age or ideology. Oh, and the baby can pass an infection on to an unprotected child or adult, as well.

It's like when my sister was a teenager and Mom used to say, "Be careful!" before she took the car out. And she'd get mad, because, "I've never been in an accident before!" It was a silly argument then, it's a silly argument now.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 02:10 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 3,579,235 times
Reputation: 7285
th
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
I have another question: Do you purposely obfuscate subjects? You are assuming an agenda before you give an answer, I think. I am not making any assumptions. I am asking about your personal response, not a social profile of anti-vaxxers. What gave you the idea that I think only young parents don't vaccinate?

If a family is in agreement that it's okay to leave a baby in the car while running into a store, does that make it safe? No, of course not. For so many reasons.

Just because baby 1 didn't get sick, doesn't mean that baby 2 won't. It all depends upon whether someone in contact with an unprotected infant is infected. Not anything to do with a magical bubble that protects Jo48's family. No infection, no problem. The problem comes when someone IS infected. Which can happen to unprotected individuals, regardless of age or ideology. Oh, and the baby can pass an infection on to an unprotected child or adult, as well.

It's like when my sister was a teenager and Mom used to say, "Be careful!" before she took the car out. And she'd get mad, because, "I've never been in an accident before!" It was a silly argument then, it's a silly argument now.
Ok, you really want my own personal philosophy? I am anti-medicine, anti-doctor, and very much anti-preventive treatments (vaccination just the tip of the iceberg), period. I despise the ACA and all that wonderful "free" preventive cr--- in it. All that does is line the pockets of the medical industry. Money making scheme for doctors, hospitals, labs, big pharms, etc. FEAR of getting sick and dying drives the medical industry and lines their pockets.

You can go spend half you life seeing doctors to prevent this and prevent that. Go for it. I will pass on the entire package, than you very much. You can do whatever you want as far as I am concerned. Unfortunately, you people think you can rule others.

Edit: You really need to be addressing this subject to PREGNANT WOMEN themselves more so. They are the ones who have far, far more contact with newborns. Of course, ALL of them are vaccinating themselves. Are they?

Last edited by Jo48; 08-14-2015 at 02:18 PM..
 
Old 08-14-2015, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,210 posts, read 464,965 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
th

Ok, you really want my own personal philosophy? I am anti-medicine, anti-doctor, and very much anti-preventive treatments (vaccination just the tip of the iceberg), period. I despise the ACA and all that wonderful "free" preventive cr--- in it. All that does is line the pockets of the medical industry. Money making scheme for doctors, hospitals, labs, big pharms, etc. FEAR of getting sick and dying drives the medical industry and lines their pockets.

You can go spend half you life seeing doctors to prevent this and prevent that. Go for it. I will pass on the entire package, than you very much. You can do whatever you want as far as I am concerned. Unfortunately, you people think you can rule others.

Edit: You really need to be addressing this subject to PREGNANT WOMEN themselves more so. They are the ones who have far, far more contact with newborns. Of course, ALL of them are vaccinating themselves. Are they?
No, I wanted to address it to you. I wondered about your philosophy, because I couldn't wrap my brain around it. Now I get you. Completely. And I have no respect whatsoever for your position. You likely have none for mine. But I live a better life with preventive care than without it. I am not afraid, I am empowered. Oh, and healthy. And very, very content.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,948,247 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I think maybe you should listen to this Congressman from Florida, not Kalifornia.

The Links between Vaccines and Autism: Congressman Bill Posey Calls For Investigation Of CDC Whistleblower William Thompson | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Do you think he will be voting for his fellow Florida Congresswoman's Vaccinate All Children Act?


Bill Posey is a nut, he's just the replacement for the other nut that got voted out, former Indiana Congressman Dan Burton. His arguments are just as scientifically ignorant as the rest of the anti-vaxxers out there. He has absolutely no background in biology but he's convinced that thimerosal causes autism, despite the fact that removal of thimerosal from the vast majority of vaccines has done absolutely nothing to affect rates of autism. We saw this in Denmark in the 90's when thimerosal was removed from ALL vaccines and autism rates only continued to climb further, none of the volumes of data have done a thing to convince the nuts that thimerosal has jack squat to do with autism.


http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....ticleid=197365



http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...112/3/604.full



Quote:
Think about this. If the movement was not spreading, do you really think there would even be the need for all this MANDATORY legislation? The more you try to legislate, the more backlash, and speading of the movement, you will create.
.
People are waking up, having tolerated the delusional, small but vocal anti-vaxx segment of our population for far too long. I predict that you will see more, not less mandates as a consequence. Nobody wants to see their kids die because some nutjobs believe in fairy tale conspiracy theory nonsense.


The vast majority of people in this country support vaccination and as the anti-vaxx chickens are coming home to roost, as more kids are infected by completely preventable diseases due to declining vaccination rates, support will grow for those advocating science and rationality not foolish conspiracy theories.


For the first time really, even going back to the 70s. the anti-vaxxers have been put on the defensive, more authorities, more scientists and more media sources are calling them out for some of the brazenly false claims that are being made. The more the light is shined upon the utter nonsense that these people are claiming, the more they end up becoming discredited.


If they can't fight off a mandate in one of the anti-vax "strongholds" of California, legislators across the nation will feel more free to push for stricter rules on vaccination in their own states.

Eventually what will happen is that this will become an economic issue, as more states create mandates, pressure will be put on the holdouts to follow suit, otherwise issues with climbing disease rates, infected children and more will start to cost them jobs and workers. Which state wants to be known as the one to be the disease reservoir state, to have the highest rates of vaccine-preventable disease? Who wants that title?
 
Old 08-14-2015, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,948,247 times
Reputation: 6379
More and more, states are increasing restrictions, attaching strings to waivers such as Michigan requiring parents who want a vaccine exemption for their children to attend a class at the local health department.
Quote:
A new state rule requiring parents to attend a class at their local health department if they want a vaccination waiver for their kids before school starts is reigniting the debate over mandatory vaccinations.
The rule applies to children entering a licensed day care, a preschool, the Head Start program, kindergarten, seventh grade or enrolling in a new school district.
The goal? Slash the number of vaccination waivers in Michigan, which has the fourth-highest rate of waivers in the nation, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Vaccination waivers: New Mich. rule reignites the debate




In Mississippi which has the highest vaccination rates in the U.S. and hasn't had a single case of measles in over 20 years, attempts to first create a vaccination exemption have failed for about six years in a row now. An attempt to eliminate health department verification of medical exemptions from vaccination also crashed and burned earlier this year.

Last edited by Juram; 08-14-2015 at 03:12 PM..
 
Old 08-14-2015, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,948,247 times
Reputation: 6379
Chickenpox rates have decreased significantly in the U.S. since 1995.


Thanks To Vaccination, Chickenpox Continues To Decline

Quote:
Since the chickenpox vaccine became available in the U.S. in 1995, there has been a large reduction in chickenpox cases. Hospitalizations and outpatient visits for chickenpox have continued their decline after a second dose of the vaccine was recommended to improve protection against the disease, according to a new study.
Chickenpox, also known as varicella, is a highly contagious and sometimes serious disease caused by the varicella-zoster virus. In people who are not vaccinated, it typically causes a blister-like rash, itching, fatigue, and fever. Before the vaccine was available in the U.S. in 1995, about 4 million people would get chickenpox nationwide each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Nearly 11,000 people were hospitalized annually, and 100 to 150 people died. A second dose of the vaccine was recommended in 2006.
In this latest study, CDC researchers Jessica Leung, MPH, and Rafael Harpaz, MD, MPH, drawing on national health care claims data from 1994 to 2012, found that there were 93 percent fewer hospitalizations for chickenpox in 2012 compared to the period before the vaccine was introduced. During the two-dose varicella vaccination period (2006-2012), hospitalizations declined 38 percent. Outpatient visits for the illness also dropped significantly. There were 84 percent fewer outpatient visits in 2012 versus the pre-vaccination period. During the two-dose varicella vaccination period (2006-2012), outpatient visits declined 60 percent.
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