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Old 08-17-2015, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,564 posts, read 26,178,293 times
Reputation: 26618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
That one death was from pneumonia, not measles.
The measles virus itself can cause pneumonia. The term pneumonia just refers to a lung infection. It can be caused by bacteria, viruses, or fungi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_pneumonia

Quote:
There have been 5 measles cases in Florida since April; one child, one teen, and three adult travelers. People here like to cite Mississippi and West Virginia which ended non-medical exemptions for children. No measles cases? So you want to compare those states to large population states like California, Florida, or New York? How many travelers do those two states get from across the country or internationally? How many of those two states have former immigrant families living there?
You think no one in Mississippi or W. Virginia ever travels overseas? That not a single foreign visitor has come to either of those states? The comparison is adjusted by using the number of cases per 100,000 population. Mississippi and W. Virginia still have no measles and still have markedly lower pertussis incidence.

Quote:
One report said that two of the Florida cases were in the same family and had traveled to another country. Parents, who still have relatives in the old country, would never take a toddler too young for mandatory school vaccinations abroad with them? They certainly DO. If they are US CITIZENS, no vaccination records must be shown for coming back into the country.
Children as young as 6 months old may receive measles vaccine. Anyone who takes an unvaccinated child to a country where he might be infected with a vaccine preventable disease is an idiot.

All of the Florida cases (two outbreaks, one started by a foreign traveler and one by a returning American) were unvaccinated:

One traveler to the Kissimmee area:

Traveler with confirmed case of measles visited Kissimmee resort, health officials say | News - Home

An unvaccinated 6-year-old in St. Lucie County
Two unvaccinated adults in Indian River County, Florida, one of whom contracted measles while traveling out of the country.
Another case in Indian River County, Florida - an unvaccinated child
Another unvaccinated child in St. Lucie County, Florida - bringing the total to five cases in central Florida in what so far looks like two separate outbreaks

Measles Outbreaks 2015 - Recent Outbreaks and Exposures

The unvaccinated adult from Indian River county who traveled infected the other adult and one child.

One of the St. Lucie County children had traveled outside the country.

3rd case of measles confirmed in Indian River County - TC Palm

The second child attended the same school as the first.

Do you not see the common factor here? That none of the people with measles had been vaccinated?

Quote:
Your mandatory school vaccination policy will not eradicate these diseases. Too many OTHER variables. You're "perfect bullying solution" will not solve your problem. if you force vaccinations on children, you still have absolutely no idea how many children or adults in this country have had their MRR shots, boosters, or are not immune like that Washington woman. No solution. Honor system?
Mandatory vaccination in Mississippi and W. Virginia has resulted in no measles cases in those states for many years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Sorry but you're completely wrong about that. You ignore the fact that the pertussis vaccine does not provide lifetime or even long term immunity, which means adults can and do get pertussis and spread it. You also ignore the increasing evidence of mutations. You are the one who is incorrect.
No, you are wrong. You are implying that the protection from pertussis vaccine always disappears. That is not true. Many of us are still protected by our childhood vaccines, although it is better for adults to take the Tdap: Just once.

It appears the mutations have been around for a while, and waning immunity is more likely to be the major factor in the increased number of pertussis cases than mutation. Waning immunity can be dealt with by boosters.

Mutations may mean that the vaccine will need to be improved. However, the big factor is not being vaccinated at all.

Rapid Increase in Pertactin-deficient Bordetella pertussis Isolates, Australia - Volume 20, Number 4

"Regardless of prn [one of the pertussis mutations] expression, vaccination reduced the severity of disease and the likelihood of being admitted to intensive care, which suggests that even an incomplete course of primary vaccination provides some protection against severe pertussis."

The fact that mutations in pertussis exist is no reason to stop vaccination altogether.

Quote:
That was posted earlier in the thread. Guess you missed it. Still waiting for the Washington State Department of Health to update their surveillance info to match this county press release.
What differene does it make when the statistics are updated? It is still not a hoax.

 
Old 08-17-2015, 03:11 PM
 
5,667 posts, read 3,208,198 times
Reputation: 6647
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The measles virus itself can cause pneumonia. The term pneumonia just refers to a lung infection. It can be caused by bacteria, viruses, or fungi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_pneumonia



You think no one in Mississippi or W. Virginia ever travels overseas? That not a single foreign visitor has come to either of those states? The comparison is adjusted by using the number of cases per 100,000 population. Mississippi and W. Virginia still have no measles and still have markedly lower pertussis incidence.



Children as young as 6 months old may receive measles vaccine. Anyone who takes an unvaccinated child to a country where he might be infected with a vaccine preventable disease is an idiot.

All of the Florida cases (two outbreaks, one started by a foreign traveler and one by a returning American) were unvaccinated:

One traveler to the Kissimmee area:

Traveler with confirmed case of measles visited Kissimmee resort, health officials say | News - Home

An unvaccinated 6-year-old in St. Lucie County
Two unvaccinated adults in Indian River County, Florida, one of whom contracted measles while traveling out of the country.
Another case in Indian River County, Florida - an unvaccinated child
Another unvaccinated child in St. Lucie County, Florida - bringing the total to five cases in central Florida in what so far looks like two separate outbreaks

Measles Outbreaks 2015 - Recent Outbreaks and Exposures

The unvaccinated adult from Indian River county who traveled infected the other adult and one child.

One of the St. Lucie County children had traveled outside the country.

3rd case of measles confirmed in Indian River County - TC Palm

The second child attended the same school as the first.

Do you not see the common factor here? That none of the people with measles had been vaccinated?



Mandatory vaccination in Mississippi and W. Virginia has resulted in no measles cases in those states for many years.



No, you are wrong. You are implying that the protection from pertussis vaccine always disappears. That is not true. Many of us are still protected by our childhood vaccines, although it is better for adults to take the Tdap: Just once.

It appears the mutations have been around for a while, and waning immunity is more likely to be the major factor in the increased number of pertussis cases than mutation. Waning immunity can be dealt with by boosters.

Mutations may mean that the vaccine will need to be improved. However, the big factor is not being vaccinated at all.

Rapid Increase in Pertactin-deficient Bordetella pertussis Isolates, Australia - Volume 20, Number 4

"Regardless of prn [one of the pertussis mutations] expression, vaccination reduced the severity of disease and the likelihood of being admitted to intensive care, which suggests that even an incomplete course of primary vaccination provides some protection against severe pertussis."

The fact that mutations in pertussis exist is no reason to stop vaccination altogether.



What differene does it make when the statistics are updated? It is still not a hoax.

My point, dear Suzy, is that there are ADULTS, besides little children, who are unvaccinated/not up to date on their vaccinations. HOW do you ever propose to mandate adults, like that Miami Congressman, getting Tdap boosters? Measles may be a smaller number, but Pertussis certainly isn't. You do really think that everyone over the age of 18 is running out every 10 years to get a TD, or now Tdap, vax? I believe the rate is about 14% according to the CDC. Majority???? Actually, unless an adult gets a severe cut and needs to go to an ER or doctor, they probably aren't getting the DIPHTHERIA boosters either. Does the "D" part last a lifetime?

Bullies pick on those who cannot defend themselves. Parents of little children are easy targets. Adult vaccinations? ROFL Better improve both the Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis vaccines so they WILL last a lifetime from mandatory childhood vaccinations. Good luck.

Last edited by Jo48; 08-17-2015 at 03:22 PM..
 
Old 08-17-2015, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,564 posts, read 26,178,293 times
Reputation: 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Yep, people don't think. They just like to blame everything on the small minority who don't vaccinate for everything under the sun. The truth of the matter is, the vast majority of people do vaccinate their kids for pertussis and even if we had 100% vaccination rate for pertussis we would still have outbreaks for two reasons. The first having to do with the fact that the pertussis vaccine is not long lasting. The second due to the fact that the pertussis bacteria has shown the ability to mutate. Trying to trick mother nature may work short term, but often not long term. I'm sure though that the same people who welcome mandatory vaccination for children will be overjoyed to welcome mandatory vaccinations for themselves and all adults. That's how extreme some of these folks are. They won't be happy until everyone is forced into filling their bodies up with vaccinations many of which contain known neurotoxins, all in the name of science. Such BS.
Why are Mississippi and West Virginia having fewer cases of pertussis than states with high opt out rates? The answer is that even the imperfect pertussis vaccine prevents pertussis from spreading the way it spreads in communities with low vaccination rates. Protection from the vaccine wanes over time, but not in everyone. Many people are still protected by their childhood vaccines, though getting a booster (one Tdap) is advisable for adults. Mississippi and W. Virginia see random cases of pertussis, not clusters like in California.

Why is getting a booster for tetanus or diphtheria no big deal but the need for a booster for pertussis implies the vaccine is useless?

The ingredients in vaccines are not toxic in the tiny amounts present. You get more of those ingredients from water, food, and your own body's metabolic processes than you do from vaccines.
 
Old 08-17-2015, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,564 posts, read 26,178,293 times
Reputation: 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
My point, dear Suzy, is that there are ADULTS, besides little children, who are unvaccinated/not up to date on their vaccinations. HOW do you ever propose to mandate adults, like that Miami Congressman, getting Tdap boosters? Measles may be a smaller number, but Pertussis certainly isn't. You do really think that everyone over the age of 18 is running out every 10 years to get a TD, or now Tdap, vax? I believe the rate is about 14% according to the CDC. Majority???? Actually, unless an adult gets a severe cut and needs to go to an ER or doctor, they probably aren't getting the DIPHTHERIA boosters either. Does the "D" part last a lifetime?

Bullies pick on those who cannot defend themselves. Parents of little children are easy targets. Adult vaccinations? ROFL Better improve both the Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis vaccines so they WILL last a lifetime from mandatory childhood vaccinations. Good luck.

The Congressman supports vaccination.

GOP Republic Carlos Curbelo urges vaccines after whooping cough diagnosis | Daily Mail Online

How to mandate that adults get vaccinated? Make them pay if they do not want to get boosters: give those who do keep vaccine up to date a discount on insurance premiums or a tax credit. Many, like the Congressman, were just not aware that the Tdap is recommended. Not everyone who has not updated his vaccines is anti-vaccine.

Diphtheria needs a booster every 10 years. That is why it is in the Td and Tdap. The Tdap is one time only, not every ten years.
 
Old 08-17-2015, 03:59 PM
 
5,667 posts, read 3,208,198 times
Reputation: 6647
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Why are Mississippi and West Virginia having fewer cases of pertussis than states with high opt out rates? The answer is that even the imperfect pertussis vaccine prevents pertussis from spreading the way it spreads in communities with low vaccination rates. Protection from the vaccine wanes over time, but not in everyone. Many people are still protected by their childhood vaccines, though getting a booster (one Tdap) is advisable for adults. Mississippi and W. Virginia see random cases of pertussis, not clusters like in California.

Why is getting a booster for tetanus or diphtheria no big deal but the need for a booster for pertussis implies the vaccine is useless?

The ingredients in vaccines are not toxic in the tiny amounts present. You get more of those ingredients from water, food, and your own body's metabolic processes than you do from vaccines.
I consider all THREE useless, haven't those other two either, and a choice under the right to refuse medical treatment as an ADULT. I have had none of the above in 60 years. Still protecting the sheep?

You make a lot of assumptions about people, Suzy, but your own CDC statistics contradicts what you post on here. The majority of children ARE being vaccinated, but adults aren't, and Pertussis is a perfect example.

You don't believe me? Go do a search on CDC statistics. If nothing else, why would they even bother to try to mandate a National Adult Vaccination Plan with all the BS involved in it; workplaces, churches, community centers, etc., if the adult population was willingly getting all their own vaccinations?

You cannot achieve your Health People 2020 goals or your so called Herd Immunity without 75% of the population. According to your own CDC statistics the adult Tdap rate is about 14%. There goes your whooping cough Herd Immunity.
 
Old 08-17-2015, 05:13 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 749,376 times
Reputation: 2377
You know you're an optimist when you can still be surprised by the patent stupidity and selfishness of the most recent anti-vax posts.

"Vaccines are stupid because even though 30 people might die a year instead of 8000 they aren't perfect". Umm what?

"Vaccines are stupid because they don't always work or last forever".

For pertussis that's still 7970 people PER YEAR that aren't dead!

So we should let those 8000 per year die so (from one illness alone) to maintain your "choice"? Luckily many people in many states are smarter than you. For the rest there are mandates.
 
Old 08-17-2015, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,564 posts, read 26,178,293 times
Reputation: 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I consider all THREE useless, haven't those other two either, and a choice under the right to refuse medical treatment as an ADULT. I have had none of the above in 60 years. Still protecting the sheep?

You make a lot of assumptions about people, Suzy, but your own CDC statistics contradicts what you post on here. The majority of children ARE being vaccinated, but adults aren't, and Pertussis is a perfect example.

You don't believe me? Go do a search on CDC statistics. If nothing else, why would they even bother to try to mandate a National Adult Vaccination Plan with all the BS involved in it; workplaces, churches, community centers, etc., if the adult population was willingly getting all their own vaccinations?

You cannot achieve your Health People 2020 goals or your so called Herd Immunity without 75% of the population. According to your own CDC statistics the adult Tdap rate is about 14%. There goes your whooping cough Herd Immunity.
Why are adults not getting pertussis in Mississippi and W. Virginia? It seems that mandating childhood vaccines has an effect on all age groups. I wonder why that is?

Who is mandating adult vaccinations? All I have seen are educational campaigns to increase awareness of the need for adults to update their vaccines.

Healthy People 2020:

Immunization and Infectious Diseases | Healthy People 2020

I see no provision for mandates.

The Tdap recommendation for adults is relatively new and it is be given once in place of the Td. That means that some adults are considered fully vaccinated even if they have not yet had the Tdap. If they are not due for a Td they may go ahead and get the Tdap anyway, but if it has not been ten years since the last Td the Tdap is not "overdue".

The 14% figure you quoted is likely an underestimate, since it is derived only from history obtained from people who knew which vaccine they received, excluding those who did not know. It also does not mean that all of the adults who have not taken the Tdap lack immunity to pertussis, no matter how hard you try to make it seem that is true.

National Adult Vaccination Plan:

Home

By the way, about 70% of medicare beneficiaries have Part D plans. For those who do not, the Tdap would cost about $60.
 
Old 08-17-2015, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Washington state
4,704 posts, read 2,314,925 times
Reputation: 13763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
That one death was from pneumonia, not measles. Would it have even made the news if she had just caught pneumonia and died? A lot of people die from pneumonia. Oh, forgot, we have VACCINES for that too! Manadate that for the entire population too!!!

Congratulations, you just rewrote history! All those people who died of the 1918 flu? Why, according to you, they didn't die from flu. They died from...wait for it....PNEUMONIA! There wasn't any flu. It was just a pandemic of pneumonia that went round the world a couple times and killed everyone. Thank you for clarifying that!
 
Old 08-18-2015, 06:36 AM
 
5,667 posts, read 3,208,198 times
Reputation: 6647
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Why are adults not getting pertussis in Mississippi and W. Virginia? It seems that mandating childhood vaccines has an effect on all age groups. I wonder why that is?

Who is mandating adult vaccinations? All I have seen are educational campaigns to increase awareness of the need for adults to update their vaccines.

Healthy People 2020:

Immunization and Infectious Diseases | Healthy People 2020

I see no provision for mandates.

The Tdap recommendation for adults is relatively new and it is be given once in place of the Td. That means that some adults are considered fully vaccinated even if they have not yet had the Tdap. If they are not due for a Td they may go ahead and get the Tdap anyway, but if it has not been ten years since the last Td the Tdap is not "overdue".

The 14% figure you quoted is likely an underestimate, since it is derived only from history obtained from people who knew which vaccine they received, excluding those who did not know. It also does not mean that all of the adults who have not taken the Tdap lack immunity to pertussis, no matter how hard you try to make it seem that is true.

National Adult Vaccination Plan:

Home

By the way, about 70% of medicare beneficiaries have Part D plans. For those who do not, the Tdap would cost about $60.
That TD does not contain the Pertussis element. So while they may be up to date on the other two elements from getting vaccinated for a Tetanus shot, it is very likely that their childhood Pertussis element would have waned. We were discussing whooping cough and why there have been so many outbreaks, including that Miami Congressman, among adults.

That congressman appeared to be in his 40's. Does a childhood Pertussis vax last over 30 years? Remember, a person in their 30's or 40's would have been vaccinated under the 1980's schedule, not what is given today.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6305a4.htm

This breaks it down. It certainly is not in the 60% range for the Tetanus WITH Pertussis vax.

Last edited by Jo48; 08-18-2015 at 06:58 AM..
 
Old 08-18-2015, 07:46 AM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,277,499 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
You know you're an optimist when you can still be surprised by the patent stupidity and selfishness of the most recent anti-vax posts.

"Vaccines are stupid because even though 30 people might die a year instead of 8000 they aren't perfect". Umm what?

"Vaccines are stupid because they don't always work or last forever".

For pertussis that's still 7970 people PER YEAR that aren't dead!

So we should let those 8000 per year die so (from one illness alone) to maintain your "choice"? Luckily many people in many states are smarter than you. For the rest there are mandates.
Sharing facts is not selfish or stupid. No one said that people should not vaccinate for pertussis. Just sharing info about the vaccine. If you interpreted it in another way, that's on you.
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