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Old 08-23-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The ingredients in vaccines are not toxic in the tiny doses used. The mercury in fish is potentially toxic. I presume you do not eat fish. You may have also eaten rice containing arsenic and never knew it.
We've also tried to explain to you "pro-science" people that ingesting toxins is NOT the same as injecting them. The body is really good at getting rid of potentially harmful substances when they go through the body's defenses, but you know that already. Right?

You also know that the exposure to such things in the environment does not make it right to cause more exposure through injection! It actually means that we should NOT expose the body to more and supports anti-vaxxers and pro-choice in the decision they make to refuse toxins in shots.

But then again, you already knew that and yet you try to deny that there are toxins in the shots. When that doesn't work you say they are in tiny amounts. When that doesn't work (because there is literally over safe amounts cumulatively given all doses required) you try saying that toxins in the environment have the potential to be more toxic but yet they aren't.

Science? No... It's denial. It would amount to child abuse if I injected my child with aluminum in the exact amounts in vaccines but letting a doctor do it isn't?

 
Old 08-23-2015, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,034 posts, read 393,443 times
Reputation: 2348
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
We've also tried to explain to you "pro-science" people that ingesting toxins is NOT the same as injecting them. The body is really good at getting rid of potentially harmful substances when they go through the body's defenses, but you know that already. Right?

You also know that the exposure to such things in the environment does not make it right to cause more exposure through injection! It actually means that we should NOT expose the body to more and supports anti-vaxxers and pro-choice in the decision they make to refuse toxins in shots.

But then again, you already knew that and yet you try to deny that there are toxins in the shots. When that doesn't work you say they are in tiny amounts. When that doesn't work (because there is literally over safe amounts cumulatively given all doses required) you try saying that toxins in the environment have the potential to be more toxic but yet they aren't.

Science? No... It's denial. It would amount to child abuse if I injected my child with aluminum in the exact amounts in vaccines but letting a doctor do it isn't?
"Toxin" has very little meaning, especially without defined quantities. Virtually anything can be labelled as "toxic" with the appropriate concentration or amount. So to say vaccines are riddled with "toxins" or are "toxic" is misleading at best. Completely ignorant of the facts, too.
 
Old 08-23-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 753,890 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
We've also tried to explain to you "pro-science" people that ingesting toxins is NOT the same as injecting them. The body is really good at getting rid of potentially harmful substances when they go through the body's defenses, but you know that already. Right?

You also know that the exposure to such things in the environment does not make it right to cause more exposure through injection! It actually means that we should NOT expose the body to more and supports anti-vaxxers and pro-choice in the decision they make to refuse toxins in shots.

But then again, you already knew that and yet you try to deny that there are toxins in the shots. When that doesn't work you say they are in tiny amounts. When that doesn't work (because there is literally over safe amounts cumulatively given all doses required) you try saying that toxins in the environment have the potential to be more toxic but yet they aren't.

Science? No... It's denial. It would amount to child abuse if I injected my child with aluminum in the exact amounts in vaccines but letting a doctor do it isn't?
FICTION AND REPEAT POST - 5 times by my count. You're just plain wrong.

See post 3514 amongst many others. Thanks SuzyQ
 
Old 08-23-2015, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
"Toxin" has very little meaning, especially without defined quantities. Virtually anything can be labelled as "toxic" with the appropriate concentration or amount. So to say vaccines are riddled with "toxins" or are "toxic" is misleading at best. Completely ignorant of the facts, too.
And here is the other form of denial. Water can be toxic... Yes we know it IS all about quantity. We also know that such "toxins" are in the environment. We are bombarded by toxins all the time so tell me why someone would want to inject more of them?

The facts are that aluminum salts are in vaccines in defined amounts (see the inserts). Aluminum salts have the potential to harm the nervous system especially when combined with polysorbate 80 which is also in vaccines (see the inserts). Polysorbate 80 is used in medicine to get it into the brain. Those are facts that are established by science.

If you willfully want to ignore the facts, that is your choice but to accuse a poster of ignorance for exposing these facts....
 
Old 08-23-2015, 02:26 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 753,890 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And here is the other form of denial. Water can be toxic... Yes we know it IS all about quantity. We also know that such "toxins" are in the environment. We are bombarded by toxins all the time so tell me why someone would want to inject more of them?

The facts are that aluminum salts are in vaccines in defined amounts (see the inserts). Aluminum salts have the potential to harm the nervous system especially when combined with polysorbate 80 which is also in vaccines (see the inserts). Polysorbate 80 is used in medicine to get it into the brain. Those are facts that are established by science.

If you willfully want to ignore the facts, that is your choice but to accuse a poster of ignorance for exposing these facts....
REPEAT - false see post 3526, 3508 and many others

Anyone interested in actual science can search this thread for every false or dangerously simplistic assertion made by anti-science folks and then any of the scientific answers. Usually just searching this forum for the repeated myth (ie aluminum) coupled with a poster capable of reading studies (ie suzy_q2010) will provide many patient scientific answers proving the myth and fearmongering wrong.

There's no controversy - just dangerously simplistic scientific understanding coupled with gross overconfidence in opinion vs science.
 
Old 08-23-2015, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,034 posts, read 393,443 times
Reputation: 2348
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And here is the other form of denial. Water can be toxic... Yes we know it IS all about quantity. We also know that such "toxins" are in the environment. We are bombarded by toxins all the time so tell me why someone would want to inject more of them?

The facts are that aluminum salts are in vaccines in defined amounts (see the inserts). Aluminum salts have the potential to harm the nervous system especially when combined with polysorbate 80 which is also in vaccines (see the inserts). Polysorbate 80 is used in medicine to get it into the brain. Those are facts that are established by science.

If you willfully want to ignore the facts, that is your choice but to accuse a poster of ignorance for exposing these facts....
To quote Miss Terri, "Wrong."
 
Old 08-23-2015, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
For anyone who really does want facts they are available when not associated with the word "vaccine" so you can simply use your favorite search engine.
Fact: Polysorbate 80 is in vaccines.
Fact: Aluminum salts are in vaccines.
Fact: Polysorbate 80 and 20 have been linked to reactions and deaths from injection.
Fact: Aluminum is harmful to the brain.

But if you really like injecting things, talk to this guy: Love at first bite: Rock star injects himself with snake venom to build up immunity | Fox News

Seems like a great idea!
 
Old 08-23-2015, 03:22 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 753,890 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
For anyone who really does want facts they are available when not associated with the word "vaccine" so you can simply use your favorite search engine.
Fact: Polysorbate 80 is in vaccines.
Fact: Aluminum salts are in vaccines.
Fact: Polysorbate 80 and 20 have been linked to reactions and deaths from injection.
Fact: Aluminum is harmful to the brain.

But if you really like injecting things, talk to this guy: Love at first bite: Rock star injects himself with snake venom to build up immunity | Fox News

Seems like a great idea!
Since the rock star is as credible as the other sources you use I am not surprised you think it's a great idea. Please try it

FACT: In the amounts used in vaccines they are safe. See links clearly PROVING that.

FACT: The diseases vaccines prevent save hundreds of thousands of lives. See 100s of posts PROVING that.
 
Old 08-23-2015, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Since the rock star is as credible as the other sources you use I am not surprised you think it's a great idea. Please try it

FACT: In the amounts used in vaccines they are safe. See links clearly PROVING that.

FACT: The diseases vaccines prevent save hundreds of thousands of lives. See 100s of posts PROVING that.
Um the "rock star" injects small amount of toxic substances and seems fine except for some major pain for a couple hours or days so I thought you might find venom injections helpful. He said he hasn't been sick in years so it's probably a great alternative to the flu shot!

The "facts" you present are not facts. Perhaps you don't know that statistics showing the amount of lives saved cannot be proven due to several factors impacting them. Even if they were accurate, let's take measles for example. In the 1950s approximately 95% of the US population contracted measles but only around 500 died. That's a mortality rate of less the 1%. So the vaccine supposedly saves 1% of lives in the US?

Fact: Deaths from these diseases were already minimal before vaccines came into the picture.
Fact: Death is also listed as an adverse reaction to vaccines.
 
Old 08-23-2015, 05:09 PM
 
7 posts, read 3,487 times
Reputation: 25
Here's a good explanation of injection vs ingestion.
https://vaxplanations.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/239/
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