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Old 08-27-2015, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,846 posts, read 23,073,284 times
Reputation: 37215

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
I say that they can now. If the government is going to ban the kids from school, than the government doesn't get any say in how said children are educated. If the parents don't want to teach the kids how to read, and the government thinks it's necessary, than the government shouldn't be banning them from school. (I think education is important, by the way.)
I understand your opinion, but the reality is parents are still obliged to provide an education for their children. Homeschooling is an option.

 
Old 08-27-2015, 06:32 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 791,155 times
Reputation: 2377
Round and round we go. Katon, MissTerri and Jo want personal exemptions.

Thankfully many states are moving to prevent irrational individuals from increasing the risk to others by preventing their kids from attending public school unless vaccinated. The kids that are protected by vaccination are not only those that get vaccinated but also the small number of children who legitimately cannot be vaccinated for actual medical reasons.

They really don't like vaccines or this policy WE GET IT. Thankfully science not spidey sense appears to be "winning".

If you're all about control or as they prefer "choice" you can absolutely have it. Don't want to vaccinate and you don't have to, you also get more choice about education because you'll be doing it at home. That's a lot of control over your kid. Congrats!
 
Old 08-27-2015, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,278 posts, read 28,085,400 times
Reputation: 28733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
WHAT "medical professionals? Pediatricians? GP's? Dermatologists? Allergists? Who is supposed to give these medical exemptions? A patient is supposed to tell ALL the doctors they have of any allergies? Are these doctors going to check all the ingredients in a vaccine to see if a patient might have an allergic reaction to them? My daughter's red meat allergy is rare, but are GP's or Pediatricians going to check the vaccine ingredients to see if any animal products are in them? Oh, it will be harmless injected? Well, the MILITARY did not consider it to be harmless. She was given an involuntary medical discharge from the Air Force because of that allergy. NO children might have this allergy also?

I can tell you that when I went to a Dermatologist for my hives and told her of my reaction to Cipro, she said that she did not want to proscribe ANYTHING internally because of my allergic reaction INTERNALLY. That is nothing? Hello? Vaccinations do not apply? For the greater good of society? So what if you go blind or cannot breathe? You are saving others from death? You are still ALIVE!!!! Sorry, guy, too high a price to pay.

I can tell you both from my daughter's and my allergies that a person has to go through a whole lot of hoops just diagnosing these allergies. Yet, you want to MANDATE these vaccines on unknowing people; children and adults?

I worked in public schools. I saw first hand children with peanut allergies in school. Little secret. PEANUTS are not the ONLY allergies one can have that cause serve allergic reactions.

YOU are the selfish people in society.

Edit: I can also tell you that if you have a family history of allergies, it will not be only ONE allergic reaction and that they can change from one person and generation to the next.
You do not really know that the vaccines had anything to do with your daughter's allergies, do you? That's the way allergies work. You eat the same food for years before you react to it. So it might have been beef she ate that caused the reaction. Would you expect to be allergy tested for every food you plan to eat just to make sure you are not allergic to it? The fact is that severe allergic reactions to vaccines are extremely rare, much less common than reactions to foods.

Allergies are individual things. You do not inherit a specific allergy. A relative's allergies would not be a reason to exempt a chid from being vaccinated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Medical exemptions are based on contraindications not precautions. AND the CDC lists 1 contraindication for all vaccines: Severe allergic reaction (e.g., anaphylaxis) after a previous dose or to a vaccine component.

There are only precautions for some immune issues with few exceptions. Precautions are not a good enough reason for a medical exemption but only a delay. Even GBS after vaccination is not a reason for exemption.

Family history, allergies, immunodeficiency... not a reason to get an exemption.
General Recommendations on Immunization

So unless you get the vaccine and have a SEVERE allergic reaction, you can only get an exemption for that vaccine...

For precautions you can delay the vaccine but with the mandate your child can not go to school.
No, you cannot get a medical exemption just because you "might" be allergic to a vaccine. Immunodeficiency would perhaps make live virus vaccines contraindicated and qualify for an exemption.

Allergy to one vaccine does not mean you are allergic to all of them. Why should a reaction to one vaccine make you exempt from others that have different components in them? That makes no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So mandating vaccines that are known to cause severe reactions such as not being able to breathe is okay because you can't say no unless you can't breathe.

Sounds like an intelligent, sound approach to me.

If a parent, who knows their child, feels the child could be allergic to any of the components of the vaccine... they should be able to choose whether to risk it and at what schedule they should risk it. Doctors are paid by parents. Doctors don't dictate what a patient should do or take for their health. Doctors advise.

Do you think doctors would give out more exemptions or at least be more cautious if they were held liable for any injury that resulted?

For example, the HPV vax insert states that fainting after the shot is common so you are supposed to watch them for 15 minutes. Can you sue the doctor because he didn't observe or if he did and the child hit their head upon fainting?

Furthermore, since when is fainting after a shot normal? I can see fainting because you don't like needles but the insert is pretty clear that it's normal to have fainting and seizures... seizures aren't caused by needle fear! What is going on in the body when a vaccine causes seizures within 15 minutes?

However, that is not an adverse event... nope that's just NORMAL. If not for vaccines, I don't think any doctor would think fainting and seizures after a procedure is normal. Do you?
Grown men have been known to faint after being stuck with a needle. I saw one faint after getting a laceration stitched up. He passed out as he left the ER. I know a woman who fainted after her first gyn exam when she was 16 years old.

Seizures after vaccination are extremely rare. They may happen if the vaccine causes a fever. Febrile seizures are benign. They do no permanent harm.

A doctor who failed to monitor a patient properly after giving the HPV vaccine could be held responsible for a resulting injury.

As others have pointed out, "feeling" that a child "could" be allergic is not a reason not to vaccinate a child.
 
Old 08-27-2015, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,646,574 times
Reputation: 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Parents cannot exempt out of education altogether. Parents cannot exempt out of seat belt and carseat requirements.

Parents can choose to avoid vaccinating.

You are asking for a medical exemptions based on nothing more than what you "feel". That's a philosophical exemption not a medical one. Actual medical exemptions are based on....actual medical reasons. Not feelings about what might happen.
Parents can opt out of formal education for their children. They can also opt out of seatbelts and carseats. Do you have to.... no. If you get caught, you can get a fine but not criminal prosecution.

Parents can also choose vaccinating... but to what end? Should you have to prove you or your kid is exempt because now they are unable to function? If you think that is good then I also have a bridge in NY to sell you. Once the child is unable to function in society... THEY ARE STILL NOT ELIGIBLE FOR A MEDICAL EXEMPTION because vaccines are religiously "safe and effective."

Do you want your child to be a test subject in aftermarket sales of drugs/vaccines? If so they are not clinically having adverse reactions but have a reaction that could not be from vaccines because vaccines are "safe and effective."

It amazes me that some posters on here will not acknowledge that it is a gamble whether or not your child will react badly to vaccines.
 
Old 08-27-2015, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,646,574 times
Reputation: 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
I say that they can now. If the government is going to ban the kids from school, than the government doesn't get any say in how said children are educated. If the parents don't want to teach the kids how to read, and the government thinks it's necessary, than the government shouldn't be banning them from school. (I think education is important, by the way.)
That is an interesting point. The government says that you can't not educate your kids (though you can educate them according to the law by yourself) yet they mandate banning them from public schools just because of a vaccination... If the government really wanted all kids educated then they would come up with a treatment and recourse to getting these Kid Diseases.
 
Old 08-27-2015, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,646,574 times
Reputation: 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
I HAD one of those reactions! And it was to one single vaccine. I got ALL the rest with no problem whatsoever, and that is typical. Plus, I've now gotten an updated version of that vaccine with no problem. And MY reaction had no bearing on my children--they have had no allergies to vaccines. But, I stay in the doctor's office for a few minutes after, just to satisfy my mom paranoia.

The fainting info in the insert on the HPV vaccine is there because people have reported fainting. And this is something that happens. When a younger child gets shots, they often get scared & panic, possibly crying and carrying on. Older kids get rigid and try not to react. Fainting may happen. I had a friend that worked at a store that did ear piercing. She said little kids were way easier than tweens and teens, that she never had a 6 yo faint, but half of the 13 yo did. It's a thing. Really. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean that it isn't true.
I had my 12 year old in for her 6th grade shots. I opted to only have the tdap... actually I demanded it be a td.... simply because I thought tetanus was an important thing to vaccinate against. She had the shot and it was less painful and traumatic than her ear piercings.. her words not mine. So you are telling me that fainting and seizures are normal after shots in tweens and teens?

I don't by that an ear piercing specialist had that many kids faint in their care. As a mom, my kid fainting would be one thing but convulsing? Even the manufacturer admits that the shot makes them faint and convulse... why? Do you know?
 
Old 08-27-2015, 10:20 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 791,155 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
That is an interesting point. The government says that you can't not educate your kids (though you can educate them according to the law by yourself) yet they mandate banning them from public schools just because of a vaccination... If the government really wanted all kids educated then they would come up with a treatment and recourse to getting these Kid Diseases.
Um, they already have. They're called vaccines.
 
Old 08-27-2015, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,646,574 times
Reputation: 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You do not really know that the vaccines had anything to do with your daughter's allergies, do you? That's the way allergies work. You eat the same food for years before you react to it. So it might have been beef she ate that caused the reaction. Would you expect to be allergy tested for every food you plan to eat just to make sure you are not allergic to it? The fact is that severe allergic reactions to vaccines are extremely rare, much less common than reactions to foods.
You do not know that vaccines did NOT have something to do with her daughters allergies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Allergies are individual things. You do not inherit a specific allergy. A relative's allergies would not be a reason to exempt a chid from being vaccinated.
Ummmm.... sensitivity to certain foods do span generations. If your mom or dad had an allergy to food then you are 50% likely to share that allergy or even another one! http://cdmrp.army.mil/gsfarp/default.shtml

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
No, you cannot get a medical exemption just because you "might" be allergic to a vaccine. Immunodeficiency would perhaps make live virus vaccines contraindicated and qualify for an exemption.

Allergy to one vaccine does not mean you are allergic to all of them. Why should a reaction to one vaccine make you exempt from others that have different components in them? That makes no sense.



Grown men have been known to faint after being stuck with a needle. I saw one faint after getting a laceration stitched up. He passed out as he left the ER. I know a woman who fainted after her first gyn exam when she was 16 years old.

Seizures after vaccination are extremely rare. They may happen if the vaccine causes a fever. Febrile seizures are benign. They do no permanent harm.

A doctor who failed to monitor a patient properly after giving the HPV vaccine could be held responsible for a resulting injury.

As others have pointed out, "feeling" that a child "could" be allergic is not a reason not to vaccinate a child.
I worked in the ER as a phlebotomist (poking needles in people) for over 10 years. I saw more kids in the ER for suicide and Tylenol overdose (and drunk adults) than any other malady. You can't tell me that fainting after an injection is NORMAL. It isn't. Millions of people in the ER are routinely given IVs and without fainting. Millions of people get vaccines without fainting. Why is the HPV vaccine the one that specifically lists fainting and requires doctors to monitor for said fainting for 15 minutes. We are not talking about getting a 3-12 shot regimen then fainting. The HPV vaccine is the only vaccine that warns specifically against fainting. Why? That is not normal.
 
Old 08-28-2015, 12:11 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 791,155 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You do not know that vaccines did NOT have something to do with her daughters allergies.

Ummmm.... sensitivity to certain foods do span generations. If your mom or dad had an allergy to food then you are 50% likely to share that allergy or even another one! Genetic Studies of Food Allergies Research Program, Congressionally Directed Medical Research Programs


I worked in the ER as a phlebotomist (poking needles in people) for over 10 years. I saw more kids in the ER for suicide and Tylenol overdose (and drunk adults) than any other malady. You can't tell me that fainting after an injection is NORMAL. It isn't. Millions of people in the ER are routinely given IVs and without fainting. Millions of people get vaccines without fainting. Why is the HPV vaccine the one that specifically lists fainting and requires doctors to monitor for said fainting for 15 minutes. We are not talking about getting a 3-12 shot regimen then fainting. The HPV vaccine is the only vaccine that warns specifically against fainting. Why? That is not normal.
A risk of fainting vs risk of cancer. Most logical people would choose fainting.

Your capacity to "major in the minors" is unbelievable. You choose to focus on remote and minor risks instead of a much much much higher likelihood of serious injury or death from entirely preventable diseases. You are absolutely able to make that choice for your kid, its just unbelievably illogical. The fact that you worked as an assistant in a hospital and gave needles (regardless of the big word) doesn't make you a doctor, nor does it in ANY WAY qualify you to replace your opinion for medical professionals. As a parent you can put your kid and those they come in contact with at risk, just not in public schools in a growing number of states. That's a good thing.

The bolded potion is amongst the most ridiculous of your statements (and that's saying something). You don't know that many things DIDN'T cause allergies.
 
Old 08-28-2015, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,189 posts, read 457,722 times
Reputation: 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I had my 12 year old in for her 6th grade shots. I opted to only have the tdap... actually I demanded it be a td.... simply because I thought tetanus was an important thing to vaccinate against. She had the shot and it was less painful and traumatic than her ear piercings.. her words not mine. So you are telling me that fainting and seizures are normal after shots in tweens and teens?

I don't by that an ear piercing specialist had that many kids faint in their care. As a mom, my kid fainting would be one thing but convulsing? Even the manufacturer admits that the shot makes them faint and convulse... why? Do you know?
Fainting is relatively common for tweens and teens. Not something that happens to all or the majority.

Your daughter's comparison is completely irrelevant.

My friend wasn't an ear piercing specialist. She worked in a mall. She mostly sold cheap jewelry. She did a handful of piercings in a week, maybe. She hated doing tweens, because they were more likely to pass out. Her words. Not mine.
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