U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-28-2015, 06:43 AM
 
8,308 posts, read 8,586,427 times
Reputation: 25929

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Parents can opt out of formal education for their children. They can also opt out of seatbelts and carseats. Do you have to.... no. If you get caught, you can get a fine but not criminal prosecution.

Parents can also choose vaccinating... but to what end? Should you have to prove you or your kid is exempt because now they are unable to function? If you think that is good then I also have a bridge in NY to sell you. Once the child is unable to function in society... THEY ARE STILL NOT ELIGIBLE FOR A MEDICAL EXEMPTION because vaccines are religiously "safe and effective."

Do you want your child to be a test subject in aftermarket sales of drugs/vaccines? If so they are not clinically having adverse reactions but have a reaction that could not be from vaccines because vaccines are "safe and effective."

It amazes me that some posters on here will not acknowledge that it is a gamble whether or not your child will react badly to vaccines.
Here we go again. There isn't an activity in life that doesn't involve some sort of gamble. The hazards or risks of falling in one's bathroom, being struck by lightning, or receiving a serious injury in a car accident are all statistically much greater than suffering an injury from a vaccine. Show me that you don't undertake other activities with your child that involve a "gamble" everyday.

Society has developed a complex structure for bringing vaccines and medicines into the market and guaranteeing that benefits far outweigh risks. That structure was created by your elected Congress and by officials appointed by your elected President. As that structure proves itself, we are placing more weight in its decisions because vaccination has been shown to be effective in preventing infectious disease.

The rest of us are saying that the public interest in preventing these diseases outweighs an individual parent's desire to send an unvaccinated child to public school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
That is an interesting point. The government says that you can't not educate your kids (though you can educate them according to the law by yourself) yet they mandate banning them from public schools just because of a vaccination... If the government really wanted all kids educated then they would come up with a treatment and recourse to getting these Kid Diseases.
What you are dealing with are competing goals and competing public policy interests. Educating all the children is a goal. Yet, vaccinating all children against VPD is another goal. The balance that the California legislature struck was to allow parents who refuse vaccination to home school their children. This is perhaps not the best option in the world, but since many people do choose to home school, it is undeniably an option. Its logical because an unvaccinated child would most likely catch or spread contagious disease in a setting where he/she is surrounded by other children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You do not know that vaccines did NOT have something to do with her daughters allergies.

Ummmm.... sensitivity to certain foods do span generations. If your mom or dad had an allergy to food then you are 50% likely to share that allergy or even another one! Genetic Studies of Food Allergies Research Program, Congressionally Directed Medical Research Programs


I worked in the ER as a phlebotomist (poking needles in people) for over 10 years. I saw more kids in the ER for suicide and Tylenol overdose (and drunk adults) than any other malady. You can't tell me that fainting after an injection is NORMAL. It isn't. Millions of people in the ER are routinely given IVs and without fainting. Millions of people get vaccines without fainting. Why is the HPV vaccine the one that specifically lists fainting and requires doctors to monitor for said fainting for 15 minutes. We are not talking about getting a 3-12 shot regimen then fainting. The HPV vaccine is the only vaccine that warns specifically against fainting. Why? That is not normal.
My wife, in her capacity as a public health nurse, has given literally thousands of shots. Hysteria that causes fainting is a very real thing. She saw two people faint after they observed another person get a shot (and before they had been vaccinated themselves). She also saw two people pass out in rapid succession. One saw the other get a shot and faint--than he proceeded to faint himself. There are also certain people and personality types that you can almost predict a problem with when they get in the immunization line.

The way that shots are given can induce fainting. There is definitely less of it when each person being vaccinated is taken behind a screen and it is done out of sight of everyone else.

I remember as a kid they would line us all up and march us through a line. It was very quick, but also very public. I don't remember any fainting, but I do remember kids crying and telling the others behind them in the line "that it really hurt". I'm saying the circumstances and methods used in mass vaccination play a role in hysteria and fainting. They used an old fashioned line when they gave shots to the civilian employees at a local air force base. They seemed to have more problems there than elsewhere.
In short, iIts not the vaccine, its the circumstances.

 
Old 08-28-2015, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
A risk of fainting vs risk of cancer. Most logical people would choose fainting.

Your capacity to "major in the minors" is unbelievable. You choose to focus on remote and minor risks instead of a much much much higher likelihood of serious injury or death from entirely preventable diseases. You are absolutely able to make that choice for your kid, its just unbelievably illogical. The fact that you worked as an assistant in a hospital and gave needles (regardless of the big word) doesn't make you a doctor, nor does it in ANY WAY qualify you to replace your opinion for medical professionals. As a parent you can put your kid and those they come in contact with at risk, just not in public schools in a growing number of states. That's a good thing.

The bolded potion is amongst the most ridiculous of your statements (and that's saying something). You don't know that many things DIDN'T cause allergies.
The HPV vaccine doesn't prevent cancer... even the manufacturers don't make such a ridiculous statement.

Your reading comprehension is just terrible. I used the hospital experience to show that as someone who stuck needles into people for a living never had someone faint. The fainting from the HPV vaccine is from the ingredients not the needle.

I said doctors will claim vaccines had nothing to do with --insert ailment-- that showed up after vaccination. If they didn't know what caused it, how can they possibly know what didn't cause it??? It is not my statement that is ridiculous, it is the doctor's.
 
Old 08-28-2015, 11:50 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 748,101 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The HPV vaccine doesn't prevent cancer... even the manufacturers don't make such a ridiculous statement.

Your reading comprehension is just terrible. I used the hospital experience to show that as someone who stuck needles into people for a living never had someone faint. The fainting from the HPV vaccine is from the ingredients not the needle.

I said doctors will claim vaccines had nothing to do with --insert ailment-- that showed up after vaccination. If they didn't know what caused it, how can they possibly know what didn't cause it??? It is not my statement that is ridiculous, it is the doctor's.
By paragraph:

WRONG - as has been PROVEN OVER AND OVER. The connection between HPV and cancers is well established.

WRONG - So when someone faints getting their ears pierced it's the cubic zirconia in the earring not the piercing gun? sure.

WRONG - On your logic, we could equally say "Most kids eat breakfast before vaccinations. Some kids develop allergies at some point in their childhood, including both before and after vaccination. Accordingly breakfast caused allergies. Im not feeding my chikid until you can prove breakfast didn't cause it." Oh and "breakfast" could be replaced with absolutely anything kids do as a normal part of childhood.

My reading comprehension is fine, thankfully so is my capacity to think logically and assess both magnitude and likelihood of risk.
 
Old 08-28-2015, 04:35 PM
 
5,647 posts, read 3,198,175 times
Reputation: 6629
Went grocery shopping today at Publix. Saw sign FLU SHOTS available right now outside!!!! August? Nobody lining up for them. Besides which, there is the threat of Erica Hurricane/Tropical Storm here in South Florida. Supermarket dead as a door nail. If people are not in a PANIC over a Hurricane, they certainly aren't going to be beating down doors for their Flu Shots. lol
 
Old 08-28-2015, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,022 posts, read 384,574 times
Reputation: 2322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Went grocery shopping today at Publix. Saw sign FLU SHOTS available right now outside!!!! August? Nobody lining up for them. Besides which, there is the threat of Erica Hurricane/Tropical Storm here in South Florida. Supermarket dead as a door nail. If people are not in a PANIC over a Hurricane, they certainly aren't going to be beating down doors for their Flu Shots. lol
Yeah. Hurricane. Funny.

The reason to give flu shots in Aug is because school is starting. It's to stem the spread of the flu as large numbers of children and college students are in close proximity.

Signs for flu shots are not intended to induce panic or instill fear. It's to offer a tool to prevent the flu.

Frankly, your inappropriate glee at these things makes me uncomfortable.
 
Old 08-28-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,795,787 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Went grocery shopping today at Publix. Saw sign FLU SHOTS available right now outside!!!! August? Nobody lining up for them. Besides which, there is the threat of Erica Hurricane/Tropical Storm here in South Florida. Supermarket dead as a door nail. If people are not in a PANIC over a Hurricane, they certainly aren't going to be beating down doors for their Flu Shots. lol
No offense but you're a really weird person.
 
Old 08-30-2015, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Washington state
4,680 posts, read 2,303,897 times
Reputation: 13686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post

If my daughter was still a child, I most definitely would be right there at her doctor's office demanding that she be given a medical exemption exemption to these vaccines given her allergy.
And of course, if your daughter really were found to be medically allergic, then she would be granted a waiver. People who are allergic to eggs are granted waivers to get vaccinated. BUT - and here we go again - no one is just going to take your word for it. They want proof that your kid is really allergic and that it's not something Mom is making up because she doesn't want her kid to get vaccinated.

And you can demand at the doctor's office all you want. Doctors have a lot of practice with demanding parents, especially when it comes to antibiotics. I doubt, unless the doctor is convinced your child has an allergy, he's just going to hand over something to get a waiver for your child no matter how much you demand.


But speaking of allergies, if I decided to eat peanuts in the middle of a bunch of kids sitting around me, knowing some of them could be allergic, would you call me selfish for that, especially if I insisted on my constitutional right to eat peanuts in public? Would you say I'm endangering them? If so, what is the difference between me exposing those kids to a possible life threatening allergy and you exposing us to your unvaccinated kids who may be sick with something that could also be life threatening?
 
Old 08-30-2015, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
And of course, if your daughter really were found to be medically allergic, then she would be granted a waiver. People who are allergic to eggs are granted waivers to get vaccinated. BUT - and here we go again - no one is just going to take your word for it. They want proof that your kid is really allergic and that it's not something Mom is making up because she doesn't want her kid to get vaccinated.

And you can demand at the doctor's office all you want. Doctors have a lot of practice with demanding parents, especially when it comes to antibiotics. I doubt, unless the doctor is convinced your child has an allergy, he's just going to hand over something to get a waiver for your child no matter how much you demand.


But speaking of allergies, if I decided to eat peanuts in the middle of a bunch of kids sitting around me, knowing some of them could be allergic, would you call me selfish for that, especially if I insisted on my constitutional right to eat peanuts in public? Would you say I'm endangering them? If so, what is the difference between me exposing those kids to a possible life threatening allergy and you exposing us to your unvaccinated kids who may be sick with something that could also be life threatening?
The same as you sending your kid to school while he can still spread the flu, which happens every school year. FYI, more kids die from the flu. Your kids are way more likely to get shot at school than get the Measles, Mumps or Rubela pre mandate. The cry that the small amount of unvaccinated kids will one day kill yours is ludicrous. Why not just ban drivers licenses until kids are 20. That would save a lot more. It's not about saving kids lives, it's about earning money, maxing profit, and keeping the bottom line fed. Read some financials. For profit mandates, harm children too. Propaganda bs. Nuts how many people buy it after all those documentaries on America's for profit healthcare system that is our 3rd largest killer. Reality check plz.
 
Old 08-30-2015, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,551,969 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
No offense but you're a really weird person.
Can you not read the TOS? Like anyone buys the no offense line. Judgment is also just your opinion.
 
Old 08-31-2015, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
8,858 posts, read 10,318,535 times
Reputation: 9268
I do have a question, as a pro-vaccine person. I've also noticed flu vaccine announcements at the local pharmacies this past month (August). They're out that quickly now? Is it last year's vaccine? Honest question. I'm middle aged and in the past I've been offered the vaccination by my doctor around November or so.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top