Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When you hit the reply button the blue boxes with the quoted text disappear which makes it difficult to scroll through and reply. The only way to keep track is to keep two windows open. As Katonji and many others have explained to Suzy, it is difficult to reply to such posts.
When you hit the reply button the blue boxes with the quoted text disappear which makes it difficult to scroll through and reply. The only way to keep track is to keep two windows open. As Katonji and many others have explained to Suzy, it is difficult to reply to such posts.
If you are replying to a recent post, you can also scroll down (in the same window) to view posts in their entirety.
When you hit the reply button the blue boxes with the quoted text disappear which makes it difficult to scroll through and reply. The only way to keep track is to keep two windows open. As Katonji and many others have explained to Suzy, it is difficult to reply to such posts.
Even though I agree with most of what Suzy says, I do agree that the super-lengthy multi-quoted posts are hard to read & respond to. I realize that Suzy has said that the moderators prefer this, but surely they don't require it to this extreme.
It is possible to include material in the blue box with your reply.
This is what my reply to one of the posts in my long post would look like:
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
I am definitely not the one buying the propaganda which is making people believe that there is a huge risk from a small number of unvaccinated, or partially vaccinated kids; a fear that allows some to think they are justified to take parents right to choose away and give that power to the state. This is a well funded push for routine vaccinations with no option to opt out. Whooping cough can and will continue to spread despite forced vaccinations on children and adults alike. That's a fact. Measles and mumps will continue to spread as well. Flu will continue to spread even with forced flu vaccinations, so will cervical cancer with forced HPV vaccinations. Don't be fooled by the propaganda that you bought into and don't let your fear legislate people's freedom away.
It's about money. Look at how much money Senator Pan received in CA from pharmaceutical companies. Look at what other industries the pharmaceutical companies fund in CA. There is so much money at stake it's not even funny and that is what this is about. It's absolutely foolish to think that these pharmaceutical companies that are pushing for these mandates care about our safety. Get real.
Parents still have the choice not to vaccinate. Your insistence otherwise is becoming monotonous.
The option to not vaccinate still exists.
Increasing vaccination rates will indeed reduce the spread of whooping cough. The experience in Mississippi and W. Virginia shows that. Those two states have not had any measles cases in many years. HPV infection rates are already down, and preventing HPV will inevitably prevent cervical cancer. That is totally predictable because of the pathophysiology of cervical cancer.
As you are aware, the effectiveness of flu vaccine varies from year to year; however, taking it does, in most years, significantly reduce the risk of getting flu.
The ant-vax contingent spent plenty of lobbying money, too.
I am still waiting for you to explain how vaccinating a "small minority" results in "so much money" being "at stake."
Just copy the material in the blue box, then quote the post you wish to reply to, then paste the copied material inside what you have quoted, highlight and quote it, too.
With the big post, I just deleted everything from the original quote except your post and my reply.
I concede that I write long posts. The one you are referring to was exceptionally long because I was out of town for a week and waited until I got home to reply. Posting to this thread from an ipad is tedious. I will continue to multiquote because that is what I understand the moderators prefer rather than a series of posts by one person.
Everyone has that freedom. But there are consequences to opting out.
Nuremberg Codes? Seriously? You need a tinfoil hat more than I need a hazmat suit.
Parents may choose what they like. But not without giving up certain privileges. You want everyone to have their cake and eat it too. Except for those who can't vaccinate for legitimate reasons. To hell with them! They should choose not to have allergies, or cancer, or whatever is preventing them from getting protected. No, they are on their own because some other idiot decides it just doesn't feel right, contrary to every piece of evidence to the contrary.
And I will tell you again, I am not terrified for myself. This is a public health issue. And I honestly do care what happens to people I don't even know. I don't care whether you or any others believe that. I live in this world, and I am saddened when we can do better, but choose not to.
What exactly constitutes legitimate reasons?
Unless of course you think all 30,000 reported cases of injury and death a year are all simply coincidences. There is no proof the vaccine wasn't the cause, no proof it was, they aren't smart enough to prove anything, yet they still tout it's extremely safe.
Well, if you can't prove anything then I guess that equates safety to them. If you can't see it, it's not there regardless of all the reported injuries surrounding vaccines. I guess those are just reported by hyperactive parents, and doctors who don't know what they are doing. How long do you think that excuse will work? You can only shove so much sheet under the rug before someone notices it's there. A lot of kids who had cancer can still vaccinate, yet their parents might not think they are ready for it because they get a lot of colds and flus and their immune systems seem compromised. Well, under the law that's to bad. If the doctor says do it, then you have to do it or your kid will be kicked out of their school. It won't really effect those you don't like, or the anti vaxers. It will effect the parents who do vaccinate and their kids have had reactions in the past, or their siblings had reactions. Their kids are already ill, and they are concerned. Those are the families this will effect the most.
Why not just be honest with people, be more transparent. I think that would serve the pharma industry better. Vaccines aren't as safe and effective as they claim but, it's worth it to give more of them. If a child dies from a reaction it's not as important in our fight against disease for profit than one who dies of Measles. You can see the Measles but unfortunately it's harder to see the vaccine injuries. It's the same with all medicine. There are a lot of variables people won't take into account while they are giving vaccines.
It's hypocrisy. They don't care, as long as it doesn't damage their sales. The government is overly lax, if this many people are reporting then at least 1/3 of those hold some connection, it's just yet to be proven. It would be mathematically impossible for 29000 cases to lack connection. It denies the laws of probability.
Same has held true for most other medicine, preventive or otherwise. We dole it out before we know what it does to people and tell them with great confidence it's safe. Like I mentioned before, parents have pumped their kids full of Tylenol, Cold Meds, Advil all at the advice of some well meaning unaware medical expert only to find out later, after their kids suffer death or injury, that it wasn't as free from bad side effects or as safe as they thought it WAS. They will now warn us, after the fact. Mandating these medicines is a slippery slope that will cause death and injuries. Those deaths and injuries will be in part from mandates.
Just like recommended mammograms. Oops, getting so many actually ups your risk for cancer. Who knew? Sorry. We will now change that recommendation. Lucky they aren't mandatory. It's bad enough we say trust the doctors all the time when they can't in all logical thought be trusted. They don't know and they give advice based on what they are told. It's hearsay and they pass it on to us. Yes, we've heard it's the best thing. Ok now we've heard it isn't the best thing. It's not their fault but asking people to trust the medical field is not wise, they aren't magical. They are human. It's trial and error. We should be able to choose that without threats or public services we pay for being taken away.
I don't for a minute think that VAERS is set up, nor the funding we pay for in taxes to pay those for their injuries we cannot prove because large companies and our government are being nice to us as some on here say. It's to shut people up. Here is something for your injury, go away now.
I didn't vaccinate my kids believing that bs, and as a parent I weighed out my own concerns and vaccinated on my own schedule as my son is disabled. I did my own research and talked to several doctors and engulfed the hearsay from all sides. I didn't have my child's school held at ransom for it either, thankfully. Mandates have left a bad climate around vaccines and those who push them. They will force people to make decisions against their best judgement based on unfounded fear. Those who haven't vaccinated have grown and shrunk off and on for years. Mandates won't stop that, but they will grow the homeschooling movement. Maybe in the end that's a good thing as it produces highly educated people who often score higher than those in school. It will cause parents to lose jobs to do it but I'm sure most will survive or give in to the pressure and vaccinate the way you want them to.
Watching such hateful treatment of kids and parents who don't get all their vaccinations on time, or want to leave one out isn't worth the verbal lynching, nor is it worth kicking them out of their schools and keeping them away from their doctors and friends to me. I think it's ridiculous. It's fear based with no justification. It won't stop outbreaks, or kids at school with these diseases. Homeschooled kids still go outside. It's just a bandwagon to ride for a while. I think it will do more harm than good. We will have to wait and see, just like we do with other medial errors.
Saving people from disease by harming some in the process is not a successful plan. You aren't doing this for the greater good as you profess to. Having no Measles outbreaks in a state with mandates but having more injury and death from vaccines isn't a great approach to keeping kids safe. Education and transparency is a better approach. I hope to see this realized in the future.
Even though I agree with most of what Suzy says, I do agree that the super-lengthy multi-quoted posts are hard to read & respond to. I realize that Suzy has said that the moderators prefer this, but surely they don't require it to this extreme.
As suggested by many mods, the ignore button works wonders for this kind of thing.
In that case assuming I hold the opposite stance as you, can I stop paying for your kids education? It makes up 70% of my property tax bill... I'd keep my kids out of public school if I got to keep that...
I agree with you.
Also, if you're going to ban kids from school, then that family's property tax should not be used for schools. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you ban them, you don't get their money. You also no longer get a say in how the child(ren) are being educated or not-educated.
The government having a say in education could get very interesting. They can't force the parents to send the kids to school since the kids are banned. They can't force the family vaccinate the kids. Are they going to start taking kids away? Well, foster care can't do a whole host of things to foster care without the parents' permission, so they wouldn't be able to force the shots still. As such, the kids would STILL be banned from school. In CA, foster care kids are not allowed to be home schooled, either, so what would they do?
Unless of course you think all 30,000 reported cases of injury and death a year are all simply coincidences. There is no proof the vaccine wasn't the cause, no proof it was, they aren't smart enough to prove anything, yet they still tout it's extremely safe.
Well, if you can't prove anything then I guess that equates safety to them. If you can't see it, it's not there regardless of all the reported injuries surrounding vaccines. I guess those are just reported by hyperactive parents, and doctors who don't know what they are doing. How long do you think that excuse will work? You can only shove so much sheet under the rug before someone notices it's there. A lot of kids who had cancer can still vaccinate, yet their parents might not think they are ready for it because they get a lot of colds and flus and their immune systems seem compromised. Well, under the law that's to bad. If the doctor says do it, then you have to do it or your kid will be kicked out of their school. It won't really effect those you don't like, or the anti vaxers. It will effect the parents who do vaccinate and their kids have had reactions in the past, or their siblings had reactions. Their kids are already ill, and they are concerned. Those are the families this will effect the most.
Why not just be honest with people, be more transparent. I think that would serve the pharma industry better. Vaccines aren't as safe and effective as they claim but, it's worth it to give more of them. If a child dies from a reaction it's not as important in our fight against disease for profit than one who dies of Measles. You can see the Measles but unfortunately it's harder to see the vaccine injuries. It's the same with all medicine. There are a lot of variables people won't take into account while they are giving vaccines.
It's hypocrisy. They don't care, as long as it doesn't damage their sales. The government is overly lax, if this many people are reporting then at least 1/3 of those hold some connection, it's just yet to be proven. It would be mathematically impossible for 29000 cases to lack connection. It denies the laws of probability.
Same has held true for most other medicine, preventive or otherwise. We dole it out before we know what it does to people and tell them with great confidence it's safe. Like I mentioned before, parents have pumped their kids full of Tylenol, Cold Meds, Advil all at the advice of some well meaning unaware medical expert only to find out later, after their kids suffer death or injury, that it wasn't as free from bad side effects or as safe as they thought it WAS. They will now warn us, after the fact. Mandating these medicines is a slippery slope that will cause death and injuries. Those deaths and injuries will be in part from mandates.
Just like recommended mammograms. Oops, getting so many actually ups your risk for cancer. Who knew? Sorry. We will now change that recommendation. Lucky they aren't mandatory. It's bad enough we say trust the doctors all the time when they can't in all logical thought be trusted. They don't know and they give advice based on what they are told. It's hearsay and they pass it on to us. Yes, we've heard it's the best thing. Ok now we've heard it isn't the best thing. It's not their fault but asking people to trust the medical field is not wise, they aren't magical. They are human. It's trial and error. We should be able to choose that without threats or public services we pay for being taken away.
I don't for a minute think that VAERS is set up, nor the funding we pay for in taxes to pay those for their injuries we cannot prove because large companies and our government are being nice to us as some on here say. It's to shut people up. Here is something for your injury, go away now.
I didn't vaccinate my kids believing that bs, and as a parent I weighed out my own concerns and vaccinated on my own schedule as my son is disabled. I did my own research and talked to several doctors and engulfed the hearsay from all sides. I didn't have my child's school held at ransom for it either, thankfully. Mandates have left a bad climate around vaccines and those who push them. They will force people to make decisions against their best judgement based on unfounded fear. Those who haven't vaccinated have grown and shrunk off and on for years. Mandates won't stop that, but they will grow the homeschooling movement. Maybe in the end that's a good thing as it produces highly educated people who often score higher than those in school. It will cause parents to lose jobs to do it but I'm sure most will survive or give in to the pressure and vaccinate the way you want them to.
Watching such hateful treatment of kids and parents who don't get all their vaccinations on time, or want to leave one out isn't worth the verbal lynching, nor is it worth kicking them out of their schools and keeping them away from their doctors and friends to me. I think it's ridiculous. It's fear based with no justification. It won't stop outbreaks, or kids at school with these diseases. Homeschooled kids still go outside. It's just a bandwagon to ride for a while. I think it will do more harm than good. We will have to wait and see, just like we do with other medial errors.
Saving people from disease by harming some in the process is not a successful plan. You aren't doing this for the greater good as you profess to. Having no Measles outbreaks in a state with mandates but having more injury and death from vaccines isn't a great approach to keeping kids safe. Education and transparency is a better approach. I hope to see this realized in the future.
Why is it harder to believe that many of the VAERS reports--self-reported, non-factual opinions--are not due to actual vaccine injuries then it is to believe in a worldwide conspiracy?
And stop telling me what my motives are! You say you want transparency and then refuse to accept what you are shown! I actually DO believe in the "greater good" in this case. Really, I do. And it's the height of disrespect to continue telling me I don't. You are free to disagree. But what other motive would I have? I assure you, it isn't fear. And it certainly isn't money. It is my worldview. We can do better to protect our population. People don't need to die of preventable diseases. They don't need to suffer because of preventable diseases.
Another option for California? If a private school refuses to take any State Funding, then the state will still be able to mandate vaccinations? It would be similar to having a home school.
There was a wealthy public school district in NY, where the parents did not want their kids to take state mandated tests. The parents basically turned it into a private school, and funded it themselves. How is the State of California going to enforce this mandated vaccinations on privately funded schools? Honor system? Sure, these kids are all vaccinated. Wink, wink. Just imagine all the hoops California will have to go through policing this??????
"People don't need to die of preventable diseases. They don't need to suffer because of preventable diseases."
Frankly, my dear, it is none of your business, especially when it comes to adults. If a person decides they wan to risk dying of Tetanus, or horror, the FLU, you are going to tell them NO because I SAY you can't die from something preventable with a vaccine? Maybe you can with minor children, but certainly not for anyone over the age of 18.
"People don't need to die of preventable diseases. They don't need to suffer because of preventable diseases."
Frankly, my dear, it is none of your business, especially when it comes to adults. If a person decides they wan to risk dying of Tetanus, or horror, the FLU, you are going to tell them NO because I SAY you can't die from something preventable with a vaccine? Maybe you can with minor children, but certainly not for anyone over the age of 18.
If you choose to occupy the same space as I do, you have certain responsibilities. If I live in certain towns/cities/neighborhoods, I don't have the option of never mowing my lawn. I must carry insurance if I drive. I can't have goats in my yard where I live. I can't ride a skateboard downtown. I can't drive 90MPH on my street. I can't set off fireworks next to my house at 2am. I must pay property taxes. I must pay sales tax. I have to pay a toll on a toll road. There are things I agree to in order to fully participate in the society I live in. And it is my business.
I have nowhere advocated blanket mandates for the entire population. Would I? I don't know. Right now, I am talking about requiring vaccines for public school attendance. Certain fields or workplaces can require vaccines for adults--why couldn't they? If my workplace determined that we had to have flu vaccines if we're going to be in contact with vulnerable populations, that is their right. I have the right to not comply, but would be subject to whatever consequences were in place. You have the right to shove a rusty nail into your eye any time you want. Or how 'bout getting bitten by a rabid dog? I mean, we shouldn't require dogs to have rabies vaccination, right? And you have the right to die of rabies. Be my guest.
In many locations, citizens are deciding that in order to protect ALL children, that vaccines are required to attend public schools. In order to protect the greatest number of children, including those with legitimate reasons for NOT being vaccinated. Will there be exceptions? Of course. There will be areas that will find workarounds. There will be people that will scam the system. But far more people are understanding the greatest protections come when higher percentages of children are vaccinated.
You can opt out of as much of society as you like. But to fully participate means compromise in certain areas. Nobody is requiring anything of you vaccination-wise at this point. Want to begin an effort to make sure that doesn't happen? You have that right, and that's what you are doing now. But I have the right to do what I believe in. And I believe we all have responsibilities. And make compromises. And should protect people, especially children, because we can.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
