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Old 09-03-2015, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Where rhotic consonants are either absent or intrusive
8,890 posts, read 5,202,292 times
Reputation: 14579

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Are many boys getting the HPV vaccine? I know that it's now recommended for both girls and boys but I wonder how many parents of boys are really getting the vaccine for their sons. I doubt the number is high.

The Danish documentary about HPV vaccine injuries showed a common theme among the girls who have been injured. The vast majority of those injured were very much involved in sports at the time of their vaccination and subsequent illness which includes chronic headaches, fever, partial paralysis that comes and goes, daily fainting, extreme fatigue, etc.

Info on HPV vaccine rates:
Lower coverage in boys isn't particularly relevant; if the vaccine is causing injuries, we'd see statistically similar rates of adverse events in both sexes. Especially considering that coverage among boys increased at a higher rate than among girls, we should have seen an influx in reports of injuries, no? Or even just comparing state to state coverage, is there any statistical difference in adverse events between high and low coverage states?

 
Old 09-03-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,864,142 times
Reputation: 7441
This site is how we should address vaccines. It gives both sides and allows people to come to a conclusion without name calling and threats. If anyone is interested, they can read it. It's a bit lengthy at 2 pages but if you read it through you can see that it's not a one sided view. It's pretty transparent and gives both sides a look. Since everyone is talking about the HPV, I posted it on that.

Pros & Cons of the HPV Vaccine - MedShadow
 
Old 09-03-2015, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,864,142 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete View Post
Lower coverage in boys isn't particularly relevant; if the vaccine is causing injuries, we'd see statistically similar rates of adverse events in both sexes. Especially considering that coverage among boys increased at a higher rate than among girls, we should have seen an influx in reports of injuries, no? Or even just comparing state to state coverage, is there any statistical difference in adverse events between high and low coverage states?
Sex matters: Drugs can affect sexes differently - CBS News
Sex matters, even with Aspirin. Regardless of the fact that not that many males get this vaccine, I'd advise against thinking men and women react the same to these substances.

This is a great discovery actually, and will probably cut the amount of bad reactions and injuries from drugs we use in 1/2. The effect of gender has been known for a while, as the FDA is under scrutiny for it but people are now taking this into account. Womens health is finally getting more attention which is nice.
Variables matter. Gender being only one of them. If you're going to talk about this vaccine's effect on both men and women you really should know first that there is a big difference in how men and women handle medicine.

Last edited by PoppySead; 09-03-2015 at 09:45 AM..
 
Old 09-03-2015, 09:46 AM
 
9,155 posts, read 9,229,894 times
Reputation: 28657
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Did you even bother to listen to the girls stories in the Danish Documentary and the one above that I shared? I made it easy for you, no reading required. I doubt you will. I've noticed that you run away when presented with information you don't like. These girls and their families did what they thought was right by getting the vaccine and then when injured the medical establishment turned their backs on them. Injuries that are ignored can't be documented.
I am glad you linked to that video on youtube. Anyone who takes the time to listen to it (as I did) can educate themselves on the difference between a study and a the type of propaganda presented in that six minute; 40 second film.

The film starts out by quoting VAERS reports o the HPV vaccine and not bothering to state that VAERS reports are not substantiated, but merely self-reported data.

If there are 30,000 self-reported adverse events from taking Gardasil, it would be highly relevant to know quite a number of things:

1. How many total shots were given? (the number is in the millions)

2. What is the temporal or time relationship between each adverse event and the date the shot was given? (This is only alluded too by a couple of the testimonials. One girl died in her bed eighteen days after the shot was given. Many don't even tell us how far before an alleged event a shot was given.) I could allege that I ate celery with my dinner two weeks ago and that today I have a headache because of it. Is that convincing to you?

3. Many of the girls claim to have suffered seizure disorders. Do you know that without taking Gardasil Vaccine the prevalence of seizure disorders among teens and pre-teens is fairly high? Neurologists spend much of their time treating juveniles with seizure disorders. Very often, the seizures are said to be "idiopathic" in nature. This means there is no known cause. Someone trying to make the argument that Gardasil causes seizures would attempt to study the prevalence of seizure disorders in children in similar age groups who have received Gardasil and those who have not. Since girls overwhelmingly take the Gardasil vaccine it would interesting to compare seizure rates in girls with seizure rates in boys.

4. Two or three of the girls mentioned in the film died. Sadly, a few people out of a population of millions will die at random. The issue can be defects in the heart or arteries. Again, without correlating these numbers with a group of people who are not vaccinated, these stories mean nothing.

5. Anecdotal information is not equal to information derived in numerous studies that have been done of the efficacy and safety of the Gardasil vaccine.

6. Finally, the people who produced this video call themselves the "Canary Party". They are apparently against all vaccination, not just the Gardasil vaccine. On their website, they continue to assert there is a "cover-up" of the alleged link between autism and the MMR shot. This is really getting tiring. Eleven separate studies have proven there is no link, yet this keeps going and going and going. That's when people really lose me, when they deny the validity of eleven separate studies.

Keep carrying on like you are persecuted and ignored. I read your links. However, I do something you do not do: I actually analyze them and that's why I find them very wanting indeed.
 
Old 09-03-2015, 09:52 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 791,575 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Just what I thought. You didn't watch it. You dismiss info without even reading it. Very closed minded. It's only 6 minutes long. Not difficult to view. It's real people telling their stories. Real girls who were injured. Some of them died.
Actually, I did watch it. Sensationalized drivel without context or evidence. A YouTube video is not science or evidence, it's a promo piece.
 
Old 09-03-2015, 10:05 AM
 
9,575 posts, read 5,770,959 times
Reputation: 9657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete View Post
Lower coverage in boys isn't particularly relevant; if the vaccine is causing injuries, we'd see statistically similar rates of adverse events in both sexes. Especially considering that coverage among boys increased at a higher rate than among girls, we should have seen an influx in reports of injuries, no? Or even just comparing state to state coverage, is there any statistical difference in adverse events between high and low coverage states?

Maybe we would see similar reactions but maybe not. Boys and girls do have biological differences that could cause reactions in some and not in others. Just like some girls have reactions to HPV vaccine and others tolerate it without any ill effects whatsoever. I would love to see more stats regarding injuries but I'm not sure how or where to find that info since the vas majority of reported injuries are dismissed quickly.
 
Old 09-03-2015, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Where rhotic consonants are either absent or intrusive
8,890 posts, read 5,202,292 times
Reputation: 14579
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Sex matters: Drugs can affect sexes differently - CBS News
Sex matters, even with Aspirin. Regardless of the fact that not that many males get this vaccine, I'd advise against thinking men and women react the same to these substances.

This is a great discovery actually, and will probably cut the amount of bad reactions and injuries from drugs we use in 1/2. The effect of gender has been known for a while, as the FDA is under scrutiny for it but people are now taking this into account. Womens health is finally getting more attention which is nice.
Variables matter. Gender being only one of them. If you're going to talk about this vaccine's effect on both men and women you really should know first that there is a big difference in how men and women handle medicine.
Okay, let's say for argument's sake we chalked it up to gender specific reactions to the vaccine. Either way, even if we limited it to just females we should still see a larger distribution of injuries in high-coverage states. There should be a disproportionately high number of claims coming out of Rhode Island, since that is the state state with the highest coverage levels.
 
Old 09-03-2015, 10:09 AM
 
9,575 posts, read 5,770,959 times
Reputation: 9657
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I am glad you linked to that video on youtube. Anyone who takes the time to listen to it (as I did) can educate themselves on the difference between a study and a the type of propaganda presented in that six minute; 40 second film.

The film starts out by quoting VAERS reports o the HPV vaccine and not bothering to state that VAERS reports are not substantiated, but merely self-reported data.

If there are 30,000 self-reported adverse events from taking Gardasil, it would be highly relevant to know quite a number of things:

1. How many total shots were given? (the number is in the millions)

2. What is the temporal or time relationship between each adverse event and the date the shot was given? (This is only alluded too by a couple of the testimonials. One girl died in her bed eighteen days after the shot was given. Many don't even tell us how far before an alleged event a shot was given.) I could allege that I ate celery with my dinner two weeks ago and that today I have a headache because of it. Is that convincing to you?

3. Many of the girls claim to have suffered seizure disorders. Do you know that without taking Gardasil Vaccine the prevalence of seizure disorders among teens and pre-teens is fairly high? Neurologists spend much of their time treating juveniles with seizure disorders. Very often, the seizures are said to be "idiopathic" in nature. This means there is no known cause. Someone trying to make the argument that Gardasil causes seizures would attempt to study the prevalence of seizure disorders in children in similar age groups who have received Gardasil and those who have not. Since girls overwhelmingly take the Gardasil vaccine it would interesting to compare seizure rates in girls with seizure rates in boys.

4. Two or three of the girls mentioned in the film died. Sadly, a few people out of a population of millions will die at random. The issue can be defects in the heart or arteries. Again, without correlating these numbers with a group of people who are not vaccinated, these stories mean nothing.

5. Anecdotal information is not equal to information derived in numerous studies that have been done of the efficacy and safety of the Gardasil vaccine.

6. Finally, the people who produced this video call themselves the "Canary Party". They are apparently against all vaccination, not just the Gardasil vaccine. On their website, they continue to assert there is a "cover-up" of the alleged link between autism and the MMR shot. This is really getting tiring. Eleven separate studies have proven there is no link, yet this keeps going and going and going. That's when people really lose me, when they deny the validity of eleven separate studies.

Keep carrying on like you are persecuted and ignored. I read your links. However, I do something you do not do: I actually analyze them and that's why I find them very wanting indeed.

Girls sharing their personal stories and doctors weighing in about the pattern they are seeing is not propaganda. I'd say that if you only get your information from just one single source, medical journals, you are being very close minded. I read medical journals but I'm also open to other information as well. As has been shown, the medical journals are not as credible and unbiased as you and others continue to make them out to be. They are prone to fraud, manipulation ,bias, etc.

My post was directed at tlvancouver, not you. She does ignore info that she does not like.

I take issue with people using biased, one sided info to bully parents into getting vaccinated by for profit pharmaceutical companies who not only fund the studies but also line the pockets of the politicians who make the laws which mandate said vaccines for school entry. It's corruption at it's worst.

Last edited by MissTerri; 09-03-2015 at 10:22 AM..
 
Old 09-03-2015, 10:14 AM
 
9,575 posts, read 5,770,959 times
Reputation: 9657
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver View Post
Actually, I did watch it. Sensationalized drivel without context or evidence. A YouTube video is not science or evidence, it's a promo piece.
Really? Would you say that to the girls parents who died or who now have seizures regularly? How compassionate of you.
 
Old 09-03-2015, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,196 posts, read 459,805 times
Reputation: 2517
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Girls sharing their personal stories and doctors weighing in about the pattern they are seeing is not propaganda. I'd say that if you only get your information from just one single source, medical journals, you are being very close minded. I read medical journals but I'm also open to other information as well. As has been shown, the medical journals are not as credible and unbiased as you and others continue to make them out to be. They are prone to fraud, manipulation ,bias, etc.

My post was directed at tlvancouver, not you. She does ignore info that she does not like.

I take issue with people using biased, one sided info to bully parents into getting vaccinated by for profit pharmaceutical companies who not only fund the studies but also line the pockets of the politicians who make the laws which mandate said vaccines for school entry. It's corruption at it's worst.
Girls sharing their stories is not scientific. They are not doctors, they are not immunologists. They don't have the ability to evaluate the data. Even my doctor wouldn't be a credible source on the wider picture, as he hasn't treated a single person, male or female, that has had a serious adverse reaction to HPV vaccine. And yes, he does administer them. He recommends them very highly. My son has been vaccinated for HPV, and the doc estimated a couple of years ago that about half of the boys in his practice were taking the vaccine. I would bet that it's higher now.

And to say that "medical journals" are a single source is a little sketchy. There are multiple medical journals, and, as such, they cite their sources pretty stringently. One can read an article and find further sources. That's what makes them credible. A Danish documentary may be compelling, but it is not produced to the same standard as an article citing all of its sources. I often read things from Mother Jones, but I know that as a source is not considered credible by many, so I try to go to a primary source, or a more unbiased one. It's not hard, and it is very educational.


I will tell you, I take issue with people using biased, one-sided info to bully parents into not getting vaccinated out of baseless fear. So, I guess we're even, there.

I will also tell you, it's not all your fault. You are victim to human nature, which digs in when challenged, triggered by a fight or flight reaction. We're not going to sway you with scientific evidence, and I know that. But to let you continue posting biased, one-sided info that is, at its very core, erroneous, would be reckless. I'm not trying to convince you. I'm trying to show those on the fence that there's a lot of misinformation and outright fabrication out there, and that caution, while a good thing when measured and intelligent, can be manipulated by fear and propaganda to lead to poor choices. Oh, and here's a bit about the study that addresses the human mind's seeming inability to accurately process facts: Effective Messages in Vaccine Promotion: A Randomized Trial
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