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Old 09-03-2015, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,619 posts, read 26,315,697 times
Reputation: 26715

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Why do you think they are wrong? They all have independently gone to their doctors and reported very similar symptoms including fever, fainting, seizures, extreme fatigue, debilitating headaches and paralysis that all came on suddenly after getting their HPV vaccination. Why are their doctors baffled by their conditions? Surely the doctors would be aware of this illness if it was common prior to the HPV vaccine's introduction. The doctors don't know what is wrong with them yet any connection to the HPV vaccine is dismissed even though it is the common denominator in all of the illnesses.
Fever is common after any vaccination. It is a result of activation of the immune system. Fainting can happen after any vaccine; it appears to be more frequent after the HPV vaccine. Neither of those cause any permanent harm. People who faint may have muscle twitches that look like seizures but are not true seizures. Seizures may be associated with fevers, regardless of the cause of the fever. Such febrile seizures are benign and cause no lasting harm.

I assume you are aware that epilepsy existed for millenia before the HPV vaccine was ever invented. If half the pre-teen population receives HPV vaccine, it is inevitable that some of those children will have their first true epileptic seizure after being vaccinated. That is why it is necessary to show that the onset of true seizure disorders is more common in vaccinated than unvaccinated subjects. There is no evidence that HPV vaccine causes seizure disorders.

Quote:
No thank you. I will stick to routine pap screenings which have proven to be very effective in preventing cervical cancer. Too bad the school children in RI have had the choice taken away from them by the state.
How will Pap smears prevent vulvar cancer or anal or throat cancer in men and women or penile cancer in men? I have repeatedly asked you to explain that and you never have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Claims? How do you know there aren't more reported injuries and death in high coverage states? You'd have to scan the VAERS reports and see.
Use Rhode Island, which contains about 0.33% of the US population.

It is not contributing a large number of reports to VAERS:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../UCM190977.pdf

Note that the stats reveal the problem with VAERS. There are 42 reports of adverse effects of HPV vaccine in children who never got it because they were too young. Some in the 6 to 17 year age group may never have even had the vaccine, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
That's why they feel compelled to make these videos. They feel as if nobody listens once they have an injury because it's related to vaccines and the army of people pushing vaccines is a tough one plus the money lost to a large company if this vaccine was removed would be huge.
The original rotavirus vaccine was removed, wasn't it?

Just claiming an injury is due to a vaccine is not proof the vaccine was responsible. If the injury is reported to VAERS it will be investigated. Why do you continue to deny that?

Quote:
When they were happily vaccinating I'm sure they received a lot of attention, and the doctors liked them, they complied. Once they became a statistic, not so much. This happens a lot across the board. Not just with vaccines. Look at the Vioxx controversy, that causes serious side effects. My mother had a stroke on Vioxx. It was prescribed for her arthritis. It canceled out her blood pressure meds and gave her a stroke. She had no warning of this and has no heart disease. It's very hard to get people to take a real look at why some have a problem. Usually the numbers are small enough for them to ignore or label as coincidence. With my mom it was simple she was to old to consider for legal action. Since people over 50 have strokes anyway. But, most of the doctors agreed it was from the Vioxx. Soon after Vioxx was removed from the market for the same thing.
Just as with vaccines, the mere fact that the medication was given does not mean the medication caused the injury. That holds true for Vioxx and vaccines.

Quote:
It takes someone with money or a few people with money to get the injury themselves or care about other, then they can afford to look into it.
This is a ridiculous allegation. Anyone can report to VAERS. It's free.

Quote:
With some, like NSADS, it takes time. A lot of people had these suspicions before but were not listened to. Finally after a long term study, and tons of brave people who reported these injuries it's now a new warning. But it's taken years for Tylenol and Advil. I imagine it will be the same with the vaccines.
This statement is not true. The association between NSAIDs and cardiovascular disease was found because studies were deliberately done to look for it. It was not "tons of brave people who reported these injuries".

Quote:
One variable that isn't being addressed as much with mass vaccination using the HPV vaccine is that if it's given to a girl already sexually active it can cause an increase in cervical cancer. If she was exposed to HPV, then given it, that would be a side effect that would most likely go undetected. Not many 6 or 7th grade girls are going to be honest about having sex. Or that would be my concern, variables like these. Will they take the time to make sure these aren't over looked.
Poppycock. There is no evidence HPV vaccines will increase the risk of cervical cancer in sexually active women.

Quote:
I'm being honest when I say that my doctor nor the nurse went over anything with us at the time of my sons vaccinations. They only warned of a sore arm or fever, and simply said to call if anything else occurred so they could note it. That's another variable, doctors and nurses don't always do as they should.
Why did you not read the Vaccine Information Sheet you were given for each vaccine and ask any questions you had before the vaccines were administered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
You cannot mandate medical treatment without legal ramifications. Nuremburg Codes decided that one 60 years ago.
Your legal education appears to be deficient. It has already been explained to you that vaccine mandates are legal in the US.

The Nuremberg codes apply to human experimentation. They would apply to people participating in drug studies, not to people using FDA approved products.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
What evidence is there otherwise? We see report after report from girls all coming down with the same symptoms shortly after vaccination with the HPV vaccine. Doctors tell them that they don't know what it is. Their symptoms don't match any other illnesses that we have seen in the past yet the connection to Gardasil is dismissed. That's illogical.
Lack of connection to the vaccine is evidenced by the fact that people followed in the studies on the vaccines are not developing those symptoms.

Quote:
"research suggests" How would they even know if the vaccine had worn off?
You are demonstrating that your basic understanding of immunology is deficient. The participants in the original studies of the HPV vaccines are still being followed. They have regular medical evaluations, including blood antibody levels for the strains in the vaccine and testing for HPV infections.

If the effect of the vaccine wears off, antibody levels drop and some of the vaccinated people would start getting HPV infections with the strains in the vaccine. At ten years, that is not happening.

Quote:
BS. I have shared things here and they are either dismissed, ignored or the source attacked. That's the pattern. Like the links I shared regarding the bias and manipulation complicit in your precious scientific journals which was largely ignored.
Your "sources" get impeached because they are so poor.

If you are going to allege bias in vaccine research, you have to show us specific vaccine studies and tell us why the results are biased. The mere presence of industry funding does not prove bias. The concern about bias has resulted in changes in publication practices in which such funding must be disclosed. Peer reviewers then look for signs that the drug company has influenced the results of the studies. With regard to vaccines, the results of the original studies are then replicated by researchers all over the world, including studies not funded by industry. That means that drug company influence on vaccine research would require a vast multinational conspiracy and never a whistle blower.

The ball is in your court. You have to show us a vaccine study where the source of the funding led the researcher to manipulate his data to show the results the source of the funding wanted.

I can think of one such researcher off the top of my head. He got caught, his study retracted, and lost his license to practice medicine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete View Post
What interests me is: why are we not hearing about all of these injuries happening to boys? The vaccine has been recommended for males for a few years now, so if it is indeed the vaccine that causes severe side effects, wouldn't it stand to reason that there would be reports for them as well?

(Unless of course someone wants to invent a hypothesis about y chromosomes having a protective mechanism against the vaccine)
There may indeed be gender differences in response to medication. The studies in boys are showing the same thing as the studies in girls with regard to HPV vaccine, though: No serious adverse effects that can be attributed to the vaccine. There are differences in the levels of antibody titers between boys and girls, but they do not seem to translate into differences in the effectiveness of the vaccine.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...cine-for-boys/

Study in boys:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../UCM190977.pdf

"8.1.13.4 Serious Adverse Events
A total of 6 nonfatal serious adverse events (SAE) occurred during the study - 5 in the Gardasil
group and 1 in the placebo group. In the Gardasil group, there was an appendicitis, a lower
extremity cellulitis, non-cardiac chest pain related to an upper respiratory infection, an allergic
reaction to peanuts, and a seizure secondary to varicella infection. None of the SAEs was
assessed by the Investigator as being related to treatment.

Clinical Reviewer Note: The subject narratives from each of the SAEs were reviewed. Given
the available information, the reviewer agreed that it was reasonable to conclude that in each
case, the event was not likely related to treatment.

8.1.13.5 Deaths
A total of 13 deaths occurred during the study - 3 in the Gardasil group and 10 in the placebo
group. In the Gardasil group, the fatalities resulted from a car accident, a motorcycle accident,
and a gunshot wound. None of the deaths were assessed by the Investigator as being related
to treatment."


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Did you even bother to listen to the girls stories in the Danish Documentary and the one above that I shared? I made it easy for you, no reading required. I doubt you will. I've noticed that you run away when presented with information you don't like. These girls and their families did what they thought was right by getting the vaccine and then when injured the medical establishment turned their backs on them. Injuries that are ignored can't be documented.
Injuries are investigated. If they happen with no increased incidence in vaccinated populations compared to unvaccinated populations, it is wrong to attribute them to the vaccine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
This site is how we should address vaccines. It gives both sides and allows people to come to a conclusion without name calling and threats. If anyone is interested, they can read it. It's a bit lengthy at 2 pages but if you read it through you can see that it's not a one sided view. It's pretty transparent and gives both sides a look. Since everyone is talking about the HPV, I posted it on that.

Pros & Cons of the HPV Vaccine - MedShadow
Your link does not work. However, I suspect it is an example of the logical fallacy of false equivalence. There are not two sides to vaccines. There is a side supported by scientific evidence and a side that is based mostly on anecdotes with a touch of very bad pseudoscience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Maybe we would see similar reactions but maybe not. Boys and girls do have biological differences that could cause reactions in some and not in others. Just like some girls have reactions to HPV vaccine and others tolerate it without any ill effects whatsoever. I would love to see more stats regarding injuries but I'm not sure how or where to find that info since the vas majority of reported injuries are dismissed quickly.
Reported injuries are investigated. They are not "dismissed."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Really? Would you say that to the girls parents who died or who now have seizures regularly? How compassionate of you.
It is wrong to allow those parents to blame vaccines if the vaccines are not the culprit. That would be dishonest and benefits no one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Why do you think they are lying? Cervical cancer can be prevented via routine pap smears. You're putting way too much stock in the vaccine to save people. It's not the only way
How do Pap smears prevent throat cancer? Penile cancer? Why is it better to get an infection with a cancer causing virus and then do repeated testing to see if it is progressing to cancer? Why not just prevent the infection in the first place? It's mind boggling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I consider your approach to be bullying and blackmail. "If you don't get all of the injections that the state say's you must, you lose your right to a public education.". Sorry if that offends you but I'm just calling it as I see it.
This has been addressed ad nauseum. You really need to get over it.

Quote:
That is why it is important to look at sources from a wide variety and not just say, "oh, no medical journals are the only thing worth reading". All sources can be biased but I'm not going to discount people's personal stories simply because "science" hasn't yet taken the task of truly evaluating reactions. All of the information factors into my decision, not just one documentary or five medical journals.
The problem is that you give too much weight to crappy sources.

Quote:
I shared this awhile back about manipulation is scientific studies.
Again, you have to show us actual vaccine studies where the data has been manipulated by a drug company. You cannot just make a blanket accusation of bias and not give us evidence that it has actually occurred.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
She presented honest information regarding the risk of getting the vaccine and the risk of not getting the vaccine. She was concerned about the marketing of the vaccine and concerned about people not having true informed consent. What is happening with RI mandating the HPV vaccine for school entry is an example of denying people their right to choose, true informed consent. She says quite clearly that, "The decision to be vaccinated must be the woman's (or parent's if it is for a young child), and not the physician's or any board of health, as the vaccination contains personal risk that only the person can value. "

Does it concern you at all that the mandate in RI goes against this advice?

Did you read the article? She was the Principal Investigator. They even define this role in the article. She did mention the confirmed risk of autoimmune attacks after Gardasil injection here,

Please share the articles with Diane Harper that contradict this one. She has shown that she is very much in favor of informed consent.
Harper's concerns are now moot. Much of what she said was based on the possibility that the effect of the vaccine would wane too soon. We now know that is not happening.

However, she never said the vaccine was not safe or effective.

Dr. Diane Harper and HPV vaccines

Her concerns actually were about marketing of the vaccine and whether it would be more cost effective than just doing Pap smears. However, it appears that she, too, was just focusing on cervical cancer and ignoring other HPV associated cancers. It is puzzling to me that she does that.

Since all the brouhaha over her comments on the HPV vaccine several years ago, tons of data have been collected on the HPV vaccines confirming that they are safe and effective. Harper has published some of that information.

I cannot find any evidence to support the statement that neurologists have confirmed autoimmune disease caused by HPV vaccine.

Study of almost 4 million women in Sweden and Denmark:

Quadrivalent HPV vaccination and risk of multiple sclerosis and other demyelinating diseases of the central nervous system. - PubMed - NCBI

"n this study with nationwide coverage of 2 Scandinavian countries, qHPV [Gardasil] vaccination was not associated with the development of multiple sclerosis or other demyelinating diseases. These findings do not support concerns about a causal relationship between qHPV vaccination and demyelinating diseases."

Last edited by suzy_q2010; 09-03-2015 at 10:49 PM..

 
Old 09-03-2015, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,584,126 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
If more kids get shot in school than get measles, mumps, or rubella, it's because many more children today (except for a few beanbrained holdouts) are getting vaccinated. Let everyone stop vaccinating and your gunshot victims will be eclipsed by those catching old diseases. So you saying that more kids get shot then get all the old diseases is just a plus for vaccination.

None of you anti-vaxxers can seem to wrap your brains around the fact that all this lack of disease is solely due to kids having been vaccinated. Look at the number of measles cases PRE-vaccination, and then come back and spout your arguments.

Unless, of course, you want MORE kids shot so you can keep up your fantasy.
One, I'm not anti vax, two I stated pre mandates, not pre vaccine. The rest of your post is just an example of how hot headed people get when you pit one group against another, looks like all the propaganda has hit the nail on the head. Why people still fall for it I'll never know.
I do feel for the tiny minority you're bashing, after being lumped in I now understand what it's like. I have no fantasy, it's the truth. Pre mandate.

Last edited by PoppySead; 09-04-2015 at 12:04 AM.. Reason: Phone ug
 
Old 09-03-2015, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,584,126 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete View Post
Awesome. So, what patterns or biologically plausible explanations have they uncovered that the medical community is ignoring, and/or vaccine safety surveillance has not picked up on? I am open to all objective evidence, the burden of which is on the one making the claim.
It's called probability. Remember math class? If 30000 reported injury and death came from 100000 vaccines then what is the probability if you give 200000 vaccines?
Let me guess, probability doesn't even apply to vaccines because they're so special. Read my post again. I clearly stated probability. That's not a coincidence.

I'm thinking you just have no idea at this point and are just arguing because you can. Feel free, opinion can come from anywhere, anytime. But, I don't need to partake, and I won't anymore. Come back with some reasons how vaccines defy probability and we'll talk.
 
Old 09-03-2015, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,619 posts, read 26,315,697 times
Reputation: 26715
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
It's called probability. Remember math class? If 30000 reported injury and death came from 100000 vaccines then what is the probability if you give 200000 vaccines?
Let me guess, probability doesn't even apply to vaccines because they're so special. Read my post again. I clearly stated probability. That's not a coincidence.

I'm thinking you just have no idea at this point and are just arguing because you can. Feel free, opinion can come from anywhere, anytime. But, I don't need to partake, and I won't anymore. Come back with some reasons that vaccines defy probability and we'll talk.
The fallacy is that not all of those reports represent true vaccine injuries. Very few of them do. Increasing the number of reports would do nothing to the probability that a vaccine caused an injury.

Your assumption that every report to VAERS represents a confirmed vaccine injury is wrong and is a misuse of VAERS information. VAERS does not determine causality!!!!!
 
Old 09-04-2015, 12:12 AM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 752,801 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
It's called probability. Remember math class? If 30000 reported injury and death came from 100000 vaccines then what is the probability if you give 200000 vaccines?
Let me guess, probability doesn't even apply to vaccines because they're so special. Read my post again. I clearly stated probability. That's not a coincidence.

I'm thinking you just have no idea at this point and are just arguing because you can. Feel free, opinion can come from anywhere, anytime. But, I don't need to partake, and I won't anymore. Come back with some reasons how vaccines defy probability and we'll talk.
It's sure a good thing you're not anti-vax. I would hate to see how absurd that would look. (Sarcasm emoji)
 
Old 09-04-2015, 06:10 AM
 
Location: New Yawk
8,666 posts, read 4,830,071 times
Reputation: 14034
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
It's called probability. Remember math class? If 30000 reported injury and death came from 100000 vaccines then what is the probability if you give 200000 vaccines?
Let me guess, probability doesn't even apply to vaccines because they're so special. Read my post again. I clearly stated probability. That's not a coincidence.

I'm thinking you just have no idea at this point and are just arguing because you can. Feel free, opinion can come from anywhere, anytime. But, I don't need to partake, and I won't anymore. Come back with some reasons how vaccines defy probability and we'll talk.
That's the problem: it's not that rules of probability don't apply to vaccines...it's that by applying the rules of probability, the stats do not support your claim. Not in clinical trials, and not in post-marketing surveillance.
 
Old 09-04-2015, 07:04 AM
 
5,689 posts, read 3,232,614 times
Reputation: 6668
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
And of course we have this:

UC Berkeley student diagnosed with measles - San Jose Mercury News


This is older, but I doubt this mother feels any better.

Mom Whose Child Died After Catching Chicken Pox Advocates for Vaccines - ABC News

Along with the story about the players who have chicken pox was some personal testimony about having the chicken pox from some of the commenters. Here's a couple of them:

Scott
On June 12, 1991 I transported a 23 year old woman from White Sands to Las Cruces
in New Mexico, who had contracted chicken pox a week earlier and did nothing about
it. She was dead before they loaded her into the helicopter. This stuff is deadly
to adults.


Paul
Oh man, that's gonna suck for them. I got chicken pox at age 34 about 20 years ago
and I thought I was going to die. I was literally in bed or on the couch for a month
straight. For the first two or three weeks, I had a constant 102-103 fever. And, the
#$%$ing and the burning pain of the pox themselves was unbearable. I was out for 2-3
months and wasn't 100% for almost 6 months. And, for years, I would get these little
lumps of flesh in various places on my body. Not to mention all the scars I have to
this day that make me look I had bad acne as a teen. It was absolutely miserable and
I wouldn't wish it on anyone.


JBoy210
Uggh. I got chikenpox when I turned 50. I was off work for almost 2 weeks. I did not
feel bad, just a little tired. But, I really looked bad. My face and chest were covered
with blisters. Luckily they did not #$%$. It took about 2 months for them to all disappear.


Princess
I had chickenpox as a 4th grader and missed about 2 weeks of school. This was back in 1982.

Reply

86 Buick
Me too, in 1956. And it sucked.


OlLady
I had them, as did almost everyone I knew. No big thing. Fast forward two decades, it went
around again, and the adults who missed it the first time wound up in the hospital. It can
really mess up an adult (as does measles in men).


Mark
I never had the pox as a child, I had them at age 20,and it was miserable.
Moral of all these stories which parents AND doctors knew? Better to catch these diseases as children rather than ADULTS. In 1991 my daughters doctor said this. My older daughter was 11 then and had not gotten the pox. Doctor said to find someone with it and let her catch it before she got any older; and let her younger sister catch it from her at the same time.

You may not believe this, but there are probably others who can state the same thing. Parents of boys were especially warned to let them catch mumps before puberty. Sterility issues.

As I stated in another post, that doctor knew that a new vax was being tested at the time, but thought it better that the kids catch the disease rather than trying to "cocoon" them for several more years until that vaccine came on the market. If that doctor thought it bad for a teenager to have chicken pox, imagine with an adult?

I cannot give my own experience of what having all these diseases were like because I was under 2 years old when I got every single one of them. No memory whatsoever. My parents were happy about that, unlike paranoid people today. Never missed a day of school. My daughters were out of school for about a week with pox. No complications, as with the majority of children.

"IF, or when, I ever get Shingles, I will deal with it", my daughter says. I feel the same as her. I am not getting any Shingles vaccination either.
 
Old 09-04-2015, 07:17 AM
 
5,689 posts, read 3,232,614 times
Reputation: 6668
Lose the right to a public education? That California legislation applies to PRIVATE school too. So a parent cannot use their own money to pay tuition (probably a lot) to send their kids to a private school either without all vaccinations? This eliminates not just ONE choice.

Again, though, if a private school takes no state funding, how does California think they are going to enforce this?
 
Old 09-04-2015, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,026 posts, read 391,670 times
Reputation: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Moral of all these stories which parents AND doctors knew? Better to catch these diseases as children rather than ADULTS. In 1991 my daughters doctor said this. My older daughter was 11 then and had not gotten the pox. Doctor said to find someone with it and let her catch it before she got any older; and let her younger sister catch it from her at the same time.

You may not believe this, but there are probably others who can state the same thing. Parents of boys were especially warned to let them catch mumps before puberty. Sterility issues.

As I stated in another post, that doctor knew that a new vax was being tested at the time, but thought it better that the kids catch the disease rather than trying to "cocoon" them for several more years until that vaccine came on the market. If that doctor thought it bad for a teenager to have chicken pox, imagine with an adult?

I cannot give my own experience of what having all these diseases were like because I was under 2 years old when I got every single one of them. No memory whatsoever. My parents were happy about that, unlike paranoid people today. Never missed a day of school. My daughters were out of school for about a week with pox. No complications, as with the majority of children.

"IF, or when, I ever get Shingles, I will deal with it", my daughter says. I feel the same as her. I am not getting any Shingles vaccination either.
Tell me this: How is getting a disease at any age better than not getting it at all? Pre vaccines, there may have been some wisdom to exposing younger kids to something like chickenpox. But now, we can move toward controlling these diseases to a degree where very, very few will even be exposed.

Because you were young, and have no memory of being ill, do you think you are a better judge of the severity of any of these diseases, or the many who are older and do?

And a theoretical question: If smallpox were not eradicated, would you vaccinate against it? Or allow nature to take its course, if exposed?

You and your daughter are welcome to deal with shingles. I will agree I have a paranoid fear of shingles, and am counting the few remaining years until I can get the vaccination. My grandmother had horrific nerve pain that lasted a decade. In her final years, I couldn't even hug her, because she would literally scream in pain. It broke my heart to see her suffer. I won't put my family through that if I can help it. But I am not paranoid about diseases in general. I am cautious. And I am prudent. And I really find it odd that not wanting my kids, any other kids, or any adults to get measles as paranoid. I don't want them to break legs, either. But my kids ski & climb trees. Paranoia is not the same as availing myself of protections that are safe, reliable, and pretty fricking amazing.
 
Old 09-04-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,026 posts, read 391,670 times
Reputation: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

The Nuremberg codes apply to human experimentation. They would apply to people participating in drug studies, not to people using FDA approved products.
In a luscious twist of irony, this is one of the things that got the medical license of Bradford Weeks suspended.
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