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Old 10-07-2015, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,384,960 times
Reputation: 1690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
"'We must absolutely destroy the vaccine, or pass it on to some poorer countries," council President Viktor Serdyuk said. "Good or bad -- it does not matter. We should vaccinate safely and according to the protocol.'" Ukraine could destroy 3.7M polio vaccines over protocol breach - UPI.com

So if you have bad vaccines (expired or improperly handled) then just give them to the poor... makes perfect sense.

So if the poor get the junk vaccines... what do we think about the quality vaccines going to rich people? How do the middle class know that they aren't getting good vaccines? When their child has an "adverse reaction" that is coincidental???[/QUOTE]
Well, vaccines have a good safety record in this country.
But if not let's give the bad vaccines to another county.... that makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
When I start seeing the kind of thing that happened in Kenya happen in this country than I will start to get concerned. Until than, I see all this anti-vaccine talk as pretty silly.

I'm real pro-vaccine. However, I can think of one time I would have opposed vaccination. After 9/11, Vice President, Dick Cheney got this idea into his head that we should vaccinate all Americans against small pox based on the idea that terrorists might conduct germ warfare against the USA using small pox virus produced in a laboratory for that purpose. Fortunately, wiser heads prevailed and this idea was not approved.

I can state if this vaccination had ever been approved that I would have refused to get it.

In that case, the benefits of vaccinating against a disease that had been eliminated would not have been greater than risks of giving the vaccine.
So you think that there was a risk at that moment that outweighed the benefits in that moment. Can you not understand that some of the population want to avoid vaccines because they trust their own immune system and IS THAT THEIR RIGHT as a citizen?

 
Old 10-07-2015, 10:18 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 747,574 times
Reputation: 2377
And it is their right. Don't vaccinate if you don't want to.

You may not be hired into certain jobs and your kids may need to be homeschooled but no one is making you vaccinate. You know that and have been reminded at least 20 times on these threads.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 10:19 PM
Status: "Gone hunting until December!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,945 posts, read 14,589,323 times
Reputation: 11404
My son has an acquantaince in high school (they used to be best friends in middle school). He was sent home last week for failure to have proof of vaccinations, and they will not accept his parents 'religious exemption'. He is not permitted back until vaccinated.

Why was he not vaccinated? Because his parents believe that vaccinations are made with aborted fetuses. I'm not making this up.

This is why my son is only an acquaintance now. He figured out years ago they were pretty much looney-tuned out. Looks like homeschooling for that boy…
 
Old 10-08-2015, 07:23 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
My son has an acquantaince in high school (they used to be best friends in middle school). He was sent home last week for failure to have proof of vaccinations, and they will not accept his parents 'religious exemption'. He is not permitted back until vaccinated.

Why was he not vaccinated? Because his parents believe that vaccinations are made with aborted fetuses. I'm not making this up.

This is why my son is only an acquaintance now. He figured out years ago they were pretty much looney-tuned out. Looks like homeschooling for that boy…
These parents weren't making it up either. Some vaccines were made in part through the use of aborted fetal tissue.

What state is this in?
 
Old 10-08-2015, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
"'We must absolutely destroy the vaccine, or pass it on to some poorer countries," council President Viktor Serdyuk said. "Good or bad -- it does not matter. We should vaccinate safely and according to the protocol.'" Ukraine could destroy 3.7M polio vaccines over protocol breach - UPI.com

So if you have bad vaccines (expired or improperly handled) then just give them to the poor... makes perfect sense.

So if the poor get the junk vaccines... what do we think about the quality vaccines going to rich people? How do the middle class know that they aren't getting good vaccines? When their child has an "adverse reaction" that is coincidental???
The WHO says the vaccines are safe. For those of you who haven't read the link, some oral polio vaccine partially thawed in transit. For those of you who aren't familiar with vaccine storage, oral polio vaccine needs to be kept frozen. However, it can be thawed and refrozen several times. It can also be left at room temp for 1-3 days.

Polio - Eradication Campaign, Vaccine Types, IAP Recommendations (very bottom of link)
POLIO SABIN™ (oral)

Ukraine is also a very vaccine-hesitant country, which is why they have low vaccine rates and need this vaccine in the first place. http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsand...raine-and-mali

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-08-2015 at 08:30 AM..
 
Old 10-08-2015, 08:40 AM
Status: "Gone hunting until December!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,945 posts, read 14,589,323 times
Reputation: 11404
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
These parents weren't making it up either. Some vaccines were made in part through the use of aborted fetal tissue.

What state is this in?
Montana- Lewis and Clark County.

http://www.krtv.com/story/29556987/u...ren-in-montana
Quote:
During the 2015 Legislative session, Governor Steve Bullock signed into law House Bill 158 that added two more vaccines that students need for school attendance. The law goes into effect on October 1, 2015.

A press release from DPHHS says that for the upcoming school year, students will need to be vaccinated against varicella disease, commonly known as chickenpox. All students in kindergarten through 12th grade will need to have two doses of varicella vaccine. Students attending a preschool or prekindergarten will need one dose of varicella.
What Aborted Fetuses Have to Do With Vaccines - ABC News
Maybe decades ago and even then Pope commented on it in 2003- it's okay to vaccinate.
 
Old 10-08-2015, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,022 posts, read 383,875 times
Reputation: 2322
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
"'We must absolutely destroy the vaccine, or pass it on to some poorer countries," council President Viktor Serdyuk said. "Good or bad -- it does not matter. We should vaccinate safely and according to the protocol.'" Ukraine could destroy 3.7M polio vaccines over protocol breach - UPI.com

So if you have bad vaccines (expired or improperly handled) then just give them to the poor... makes perfect sense.

So if the poor get the junk vaccines... what do we think about the quality vaccines going to rich people? How do the middle class know that they aren't getting good vaccines? When their child has an "adverse reaction" that is coincidental???

This isn't a case of "bad vaccines." According the link you provided, the frozen vaccines partially thawed during transport and were refrozen upon delivery. WHO and other groups assert that appropriate protocols of handling were followed and they are completely safe. There is a group in Ukraine that is asserting protocols for storing the vaccinations were not followed. This is not a scientific evaluation, but one of those "feelings" that they are not safe. I would need to find more information to make a clear, 100% decision on this, but this is NOT a case of expired or contaminated vaccinations. Or ones that were manufactured incorrectly. Or "junk" vaccines. This is a situation where those who provide them are assuring their safety, and there is a "civilian" group who is saying they are not. Big difference, there. But the very fact that the gentleman quoted above is saying they should be destroyed or passed on because protocol was not followed, not because he knows the vaccines are bad, is very telling. It's an adherence to rules they have in place. It's like zero tolerance rules in schools, when a child is suspended for using a stick as a "gun": the rule is not 100% good, even if the spirit behind it is well-intentioned.
 
Old 10-08-2015, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,384,960 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebeemi View Post
This isn't a case of "bad vaccines." According the link you provided, the frozen vaccines partially thawed during transport and were refrozen upon delivery. WHO and other groups assert that appropriate protocols of handling were followed and they are completely safe. There is a group in Ukraine that is asserting protocols for storing the vaccinations were not followed. This is not a scientific evaluation, but one of those "feelings" that they are not safe. I would need to find more information to make a clear, 100% decision on this, but this is NOT a case of expired or contaminated vaccinations. Or ones that were manufactured incorrectly. Or "junk" vaccines. This is a situation where those who provide them are assuring their safety, and there is a "civilian" group who is saying they are not. Big difference, there. But the very fact that the gentleman quoted above is saying they should be destroyed or passed on because protocol was not followed, not because he knows the vaccines are bad, is very telling. It's an adherence to rules they have in place. It's like zero tolerance rules in schools, when a child is suspended for using a stick as a "gun": the rule is not 100% good, even if the spirit behind it is well-intentioned.
So if your steak was thawed then refrozen, it would still be the same right? Well, I guess if you like frozen steaks it really wouldn't matter much.

If there is concern over just a little thaw so much so that "Many in the Ukraine would rather take the risk of their children possibly contracting polio by not immunizing them than to use vaccines they deem dangerous."
and so much for caring about other people's kids...
"We must absolutely destroy the vaccine, or pass it on to some poorer countries," council President Viktor Serdyuk said. "Good or bad -- it does not matter. We should vaccinate safely and according to the protocol."

That's how much faith there already is in vaccines.
"The vaccinations are much more dangerous than the illnesses that they treat," Olga Makarenko told BBC News. "Nobody knows how the vaccines were stored. No-one knows if the expiration dates were changed. Vaccines are a serious thing. There are conditions for transporting, storing and producing them." Ukraine could destroy 3.7M polio vaccines over protocol breach - UPI.com

I would add that no one really even knows what could be IN the vaccine to begin with. We have to have faith that the pharmaceutical company did it's "best" to keep it uncontaminated.
AND that the medical staff is practicing safely! Nurse Giving Flu Shots Reused Syringes

Last edited by katjonjj; 10-08-2015 at 09:25 AM..
 
Old 10-08-2015, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So if your steak was thawed then refrozen, it would still be the same right? Well, I guess if you like frozen steaks it really wouldn't matter much.

If there is concern over just a little thaw so much so that "Many in the Ukraine would rather take the risk of their children possibly contracting polio by not immunizing them than to use vaccines they deem dangerous."
and so much for caring about other people's kids...
"We must absolutely destroy the vaccine, or pass it on to some poorer countries," council President Viktor Serdyuk said. "Good or bad -- it does not matter. We should vaccinate safely and according to the protocol."

That's how much faith there already is in vaccines.
"The vaccinations are much more dangerous than the illnesses that they treat," Olga Makarenko told BBC News. "Nobody knows how the vaccines were stored. No-one knows if the expiration dates were changed. Vaccines are a serious thing. There are conditions for transporting, storing and producing them." Ukraine could destroy 3.7M polio vaccines over protocol breach - UPI.com

I would add that no one really even knows what could be IN the vaccine to begin with. We have to have faith that the pharmaceutical company did it's "best" to keep it uncontaminated.
AND that the medical staff is practicing safely! Nurse Giving Flu Shots Reused Syringes
Your analogy just doesn't work. Polio vaccine isn't steak. The World Health Organization say this vaccine is safe. Ukraine is very vaccine hesitant, as is its parent country, the former Soviet Union. I would take the word of the WHO over that of a council president.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-08-2015 at 10:16 AM..
 
Old 10-08-2015, 10:27 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
Religious exemptions are allowed in Montana. Weird that the school would not take theirs.


Quote:
What Aborted Fetuses Have to Do With Vaccines - ABC News
Maybe decades ago and even then Pope commented on it in 2003- it's okay to vaccinate.
The pope does not speak for everyone.
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