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Old 05-27-2015, 11:31 AM
 
5,660 posts, read 3,204,284 times
Reputation: 6638

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Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
The Star Ledger reported on feb 11, 2009 of a pertussis outbreak in 21 FULLY vaccinated children in Hunterdon County. In Canada a laboratory confirmed pertussis outbreak occurred among pre school children in Toronto where 90 % were up to date with pertussis vaccination.
A 4 month investigation by The Watchdog Institute to determine how many fully vaccinated children were fully vaccinated. It aired in a documentary in Dec 2010. The revealing research showed that in the nine california counties most affected 44-83% of those who caught pertussis were indeed FULLY vaccinated.
In Ohio and Texas (2 states having a record number of pertussis cases) 75 and 67.5% were also FULLY vaccinated.
24 of the 35 medical experts from "Global Pertussis Initiative" (who recommends vaccine policy to governments) receive funding from Sanofi-Aventis and GlaxoSmithKline vaccine makers.

Guess it won't be long before ANOTHER DPT shot is added to our children's schedule.
The last DPT shot I got was in the 1950's. lol Keep me out of school too? Throw me in jail for not getting boosters myself?

To the paranoid posters. You will never know if I, or someone other children/adults, on the supermarket line next to you are carriers of some deadly disease.

 
Old 05-27-2015, 11:53 AM
 
8,316 posts, read 8,596,327 times
Reputation: 25975
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
The Star Ledger reported on feb 11, 2009 of a pertussis outbreak in 21 FULLY vaccinated children in Hunterdon County. In Canada a laboratory confirmed pertussis outbreak occurred among pre school children in Toronto where 90 % were up to date with pertussis vaccination.
A 4 month investigation by The Watchdog Institute to determine how many fully vaccinated children were fully vaccinated. It aired in a documentary in Dec 2010. The revealing research showed that in the nine california counties most affected 44-83% of those who caught pertussis were indeed FULLY vaccinated.
In Ohio and Texas (2 states having a record number of pertussis cases) 75 and 67.5% were also FULLY vaccinated.
24 of the 35 medical experts from "Global Pertussis Initiative" (who recommends vaccine policy to governments) receive funding from Sanofi-Aventis and GlaxoSmithKline vaccine makers.

Guess it won't be long before ANOTHER DPT shot is added to our children's schedule.
I looked up the article you refer to in the Star Ledger. The article suggests that much of the problem was children not getting TDaP booster shots. The infected children were largely in the 7-9 year age group.

Anti-vaccination people look for any ***** in the armor they can possibly find in vaccines. Unless a vaccine is 100% perfect their suggestion seems to be that we should stop giving it completely. I could rebut you with a dozen analogies. Seat belts don't save the life of every person in a car accident, but no one argues we should all stop wearing seat belts anymore. Antibiotics don't save the life of every victim of pneumonia. Yet, I don't hear a cry to stop giving antibiotics to those with pneumonia

The simple fact is that whooping cough or pertussis is extremely common and extremely contagious. The whooping cough vaccine is not the most effective vaccine we have. Yet, it does prevent a huge amount of mortality and morbidity. Even when it does not prevent whooping cough it generally makes the course of the disease much less severe than it would otherwise be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
The last DPT shot I got was in the 1950's. lol Keep me out of school too? Throw me in jail for not getting boosters myself?

To the paranoid posters. You will never know if I, or someone other children/adults, on the supermarket line next to you are carriers of some deadly disease.
Well, that's one way to look at life and your responsibilities as a citizen. You do realize you can carry a disease and have no symptoms from it don't you? I realized last year that many families bring small children to my office when they see me. I know how badly I would feel giving them whooping cough. So, six months ago I went and got a TDaP shot.

I guess certain people are more concerned about those around them than others.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 06:40 PM
 
28 posts, read 23,216 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I do not have young children. I am a Senior. If you ever DARE try to force ANY medical intervention on me, you will have to strap me down screaming and fighting with all my strength. I will also call the MEDIA to broadcast "Granny" being "throw off the cliff".
.

I am OLD. I have no "consequences". Try it. Again, I DARE you. You pick on little children, and their parents, who cannot fight back. Bully. Come after we adults, and I guarantee you that you WILL have a fight on your hands. We women have said for decades, our bodies, OUR CHOICE. Well, that applies to medical treatments, AND vaccinations. I don't care about what your science says. I care about my FREEDOM to choose.

Freedom to own your own body. If you lose that to government, like the NAZIS, you have no freedom.
You're going to have to explain "I have no 'consequences'" to me. Are you saying consequences are the same as your right to choose? Because it's not. You do have consequences. We all do. If you drive drunk and get into an accident, there are consequences. All of our choices have consequences. Some good, some not. Some benign, some not. Please clarify. As it pertains to this conversation, if you choose not to vaccinate, you will have to choose some other alternative to school your children. Consequences. No one will be held down to get a vaccine. No one. No straps needed. No one will force medical interventions on you as a senior or otherwise.

For a while, there was controversy because some in the medical profession actually didn't want to perform medical interventions (i.e. heart/lung transplants, hip/knee replacements, surgical interventions) on seniors because why "waste" money on people who were at the end of life anyway? Well, thank goodness that was shot down because some people actually think life is precious whether you're in the womb or 100 years old. We all deserve a chance at life. But you have your right to refuse medical intervention.

So you say "I don't care what your science says" really undermines your argument because you have now demonstrated that you don't care about what is proven as truth. All that matter is what you want and what you think. You want what you want and that's all you have to say about that. Not a convincing argument. Sorry. But not only that, you have now undermined everyone who agrees with you. You have now made yourself sound as if you are unreasonable - not able to be reasoned with. To everyone who agrees with you, I'd be like, "uh, no, don't say that." Kinda like the way antiabortionists view the crazies who go out and shoot doctors who perform abortions. "I'm not one 'of those.'" But people will think you are.

I used to think that the argument of adults running rampant with outdated vaccines was a good one. But then it occurred to me that what if there was a law that DID require EVERYONE get vaccinations as needed to prevent further "breakouts." What are the chances that the people who currently oppose vaccinations will magically agree and say, "Well, of course, NOW that makes sense. I'm totally on board with mandatory vaccines for myself and my children." Probably not gonna happen. I'd be totally on board with being current with my vaccinations, and I am, as is required in my profession.

So despite what you think, you still have control over your own body. And despite what you think, there will still be consequences. Even if you are on a deserted island, there will still be consequences but only you would have to live with them and nobody else.
 
Old 05-27-2015, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,525,771 times
Reputation: 3814
So you say "I don't care what your science says" really undermines your argument because you have now demonstrated that you don't care about what is proven as truth.

What exactly IS proven as truth? When I was vaccinated as a child, the only disease I didnt get is polio. I dont need boosters because despite the vaccines I came down with the diseases and developed a natural immunity. Natural immunity does not need booster shots - it seems to last a lifetime.

I agree with Granny, and dont see her statement as undermined at all.

Look at the bright side, the people who get the vaccines should have nothing to fear from the people that dont want them - doesnt that fall into place with your estimation of 'truth'?

Ive seen medical/scientific facts evolve and literally change completely over my lifetime. Which facts are the 'truth'?

Medicine is not and has never been one treatment fits all.

Medicine has made great progress in many things, but no science is perfect.


http://jezebel.com/morning-sickness-...-bla-471639339

Isnt it odd how history has a way of repeating itself? Will anyone ever convince the parents of newsanchor Bree Walker that the drug did not cause birth defects?

Is there any data on how much vaccination the human body can take?

Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 05-27-2015 at 08:52 PM..
 
Old 05-27-2015, 09:06 PM
 
8,316 posts, read 8,596,327 times
Reputation: 25975
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
So you say "I don't care what your science says" really undermines your argument because you have now demonstrated that you don't care about what is proven as truth.

What exactly IS proven as truth? When I was vaccinated as a child, the only disease I didnt get is polio. I dont need boosters because despite the vaccines I came down with the diseases and developed a natural immunity. Natural immunity does not need booster shots - it seems to last a lifetime.

I agree with Granny, and dont see her statement as undermined at all.

Look at the bright side, the people who get the vaccines should have nothing to fear from the people that dont want them - doesnt that fall into place with your estimation of 'truth'?

Ive seen medical/scientific facts evolve and literally change completely over my lifetime. Which facts are the 'truth'?

Medicine is not and has never been one treatment fits all.

Medicine has made great progress in many things, but no science is perfect.


Morning Sickness Drug Returns 30 Years After It Was Blamed for Birth Defects

Isnt it odd how history has a way of repeating itself? Will anyone ever convince the parents of newsanchor Bree Walker that the drug did not cause birth defects?
1. I don't know what your experience with vaccines as a child was. If all doses of the MMR vaccine are taken this vaccine is 99% effective at preventing measles. If all doses of the polio vaccine are taken it is 99% effective in preventing polio. If all does of varicella, the chicken pox vaccine, are taken it is 85 to 90% effective.

That is the "truth" that we have established through a scientific process that has been validated.

2. It is has been explained many times in these vaccine posts why it is necessary for everyone to vaccinate. I will do it again. Vaccination creates herd immunity. Herd immunity can be explained in simple terms. It simply means that a person who is vaccinated not only doesn't catch an infectious disease, it also means they cannot spread the disease to others as well. This is how epidemics are prevented by vaccination. Because vaccines are not 100% effective, because some people cannot vaccinate for medical reasons, and because some people cannot make it to a vaccination center for logistical reasons, it is all the more important for everyone who can be vaccinated, to be vaccinated. Vaccination levels of 90% to 95% offer us the best protection against epidemic disease.

That is why vaccination is more than just an "individual rights" issue.

3. The facts about vaccination have not changed since the first vaccinations were given for small pox and diptheria. What has changed is that small pox has now been eliminated as a disease and with a little luck, polio will soon be next.

4. When you make a statement like "medicine has not and never has been one treatment fits all" are you saying vaccines don't work? Pretty silly opinion. All the evidence says something else.

5. While medicine and vaccination may not be perfect that says nothing at all. Nothing is perfect. However, vaccinations have saved thousands of lives and made the course of disease for many who become sick far more mild than it would have been. The question should be: Do the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks? The answer to that question is a resounding yes.

6. An article about a medicine given for "morning sickness" has no application to a discussion about whether vaccines work or not.

Those with an open mind, might be very interested in this link from the College of Physicians in Philadelphia. It answers a whole series of questions about vaccination.


Top 20 Questions about Vaccination — History of Vaccines


*** a note to all those who believe in vaccination. Why do you think anti-vaccinators keep asking over and over again why everyone should have to vaccinate even when they hear the explanation about herd immunity repeatedly? Is this simple concept beyond them?
 
Old 05-27-2015, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,541 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26548
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
So you say "I don't care what your science says" really undermines your argument because you have now demonstrated that you don't care about what is proven as truth.

What exactly IS proven as truth? When I was vaccinated as a child, the only disease I didnt get is polio. I dont need boosters because despite the vaccines I came down with the diseases and developed a natural immunity. Natural immunity does not need booster shots - it seems to last a lifetime.

I agree with Granny, and dont see her statement as undermined at all.

Look at the bright side, the people who get the vaccines should have nothing to fear from the people that dont want them - doesnt that fall into place with your estimation of 'truth'?

Ive seen medical/scientific facts evolve and literally change completely over my lifetime. Which facts are the 'truth'?

Medicine is not and has never been one treatment fits all.

Medicine has made great progress in many things, but no science is perfect.


Morning Sickness Drug Returns 30 Years After It Was Blamed for Birth Defects

Isnt it odd how history has a way of repeating itself? Will anyone ever convince the parents of newsanchor Bree Walker that the drug did not cause birth defects?

Is there any data on how much vaccination the human body can take?
You say, "When I was vaccinated as a child, the only disease I didnt get is polio." That tells us nothing. What vaccines did you get? What diseases did you get? Were you vaccinated against diphtheria? Tetanus? Did you actually get diphtheria? Tetanus?

Not all wild infections produce permanent immunity, including whooping cough for example.

Measles infection actually damages the immune system, leaving a person susceptible to other infections for up to two to three years.

Measles leaves you vulnerable to a host of deadly diseases - health - 07 May 2015 - New Scientist

I am not sure what your point is about Bendectin being back on the market under another name. Evidence eventually showed the drug does not cause birth defects.

Just FYI, Bree Walker has a genetic condition that has nothing to do with any drug. Both of her children have it, too.

Ectrodactyly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vaccines contain antigens from bacteria and viruses. The human body is exposed daily to more foreign antigens than in all the vaccines anyone will ever receive.

Data on how much vaccination the human body can take? Yes. See here:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...tion-schedule/

"No matter how you slice it, the vaccine schedule represents a minuscule exposure to antigens and organisms compared to what people encounter as part of life. Worrying about the exposure from the vaccine schedule is like worrying about a thimble of water getting you wet when you are swimming in an ocean."
 
Old 05-27-2015, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,798,050 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
So you say "I don't care what your science says" really undermines your argument because you have now demonstrated that you don't care about what is proven as truth.

What exactly IS proven as truth? When I was vaccinated as a child, the only disease I didnt get is polio. I dont need boosters because despite the vaccines I came down with the diseases and developed a natural immunity. Natural immunity does not need booster shots - it seems to last a lifetime.

I agree with Granny, and dont see her statement as undermined at all.

Look at the bright side, the people who get the vaccines should have nothing to fear from the people that dont want them - doesnt that fall into place with your estimation of 'truth'?


Yet there are those who DO want them, can't get them because of various medical conditions that prohibit it. They are the ones getting screwed over when people choose not to get vaccinated. Those with cancer, the immuno-compromised, infants....etc. It is because of these most vulnerable amongst us that vaccination for healthy individuals is especially crucial.



[quote=ConeyGirl52;39787153
Is there any data on how much vaccination the human body can take?[/quote]


The reality is that while there are more vaccines nowadays, you're receiving a significantly smaller antigen load than what you would have gotten in the 60's, 70's, 80's and even 90's. People focus on the amount of vaccinations but neglect to mention that they present less of a burden on the immune system than in the past.


Study: Number of antigens in vaccines unrelated to neuropsychological outcomes
 
Old 05-27-2015, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,541 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26548
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
*** a note to all those who believe in vaccination. Why do you think anti-vaccinators keep asking over and over again why everyone should have to vaccinate even when they hear the explanation about herd immunity repeatedly? Is this simple concept beyond them?
They do not "believe" in herd immunity. They do not want to admit vaccines work. They cannot accept that vaccines prevent illness, serious complications, and deaths from common infections - infections that hit children the hardest. They are firmly deluded into believing that vaccines are dangerous and evil. They cannot understand how to evaluate risks and benefits. When given the data that shows the benefits are great and the risks are small, they do not "believe" it. How supposedly educated people can oppose vaccines totally escapes me. Of course, there are those that do know vaccines are safe and effective and do know how herd immunity works and choose to exploit it. They deliberately "hide in the herd", deriving the benefit of other families vaccinating their children while avoiding even the tiniest risk of vaccination for their own.

The only "usual childhood disease" my sons had was chickenpox. The oldest, who had leukemia, had to be hospitalized for shingles (on his face and head) while he was on chemo, thanks to having had chickenpox. Every single door into the pediatric oncology building and hospital had signs telling everyone not to enter if anyone in their party had chickenpox or had even possibly been exposed to it because of the risk of giving it to a child on chemo who had never had it. Do you believe I would have loved to have been able to give my kids the chickenpox vaccine? You betcha. It was not available for them.

I have a scar on my upper left arm from a smallpox vaccination. My kids never needed the vaccine because the US stopped universal vaccination against it in 1971. My younger son was born about a month before the last case of smallpox in the world was diagnosed, in 1977. Smallpox has been eradicated from the entire world - due to vaccination. If the resistance to vaccine programs in certain third world countries can be overcome, there will come a time when no one in the world will need to take the polio vaccine. Measles, mumps, rubella, and Hepatitis B are potentially eradicable, too.

My parents were from Meriwether County, GA, living near Warm Springs, GA. My dad and his sister worked at the Warm Springs Foundation before WWII. They knew polio up close and personal. When the polio vaccine came out, do you think my parents had any qualms about giving it to me and my brother? My mother literally gave it to us: she was a volunteer who helped with the vaccinations at my elementary school and she fed us our sugar cubes with the little bit of pink fluid on it. People lined up in the streets to get polio vaccine.

Too many people today just have no concept how devastating the childhood diseases that were common sixty years ago can be.

I am fully vaccinated, my husband was in the Army and has had probably every human vaccine available when he was in the service, my kids are fully vaccinated, and my granddaughters are on their way to being fully vaccinated.

Do I "believe" in vaccination? With the mountain of evidence showing it is safe and effective, how could I not?
 
Old 05-27-2015, 11:01 PM
AFP
 
6,079 posts, read 3,640,469 times
Reputation: 5246
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabber_wocky View Post
For because of the opt out option some pockets have already dipped below herd immunity it's a public health issue.

Opting-Out Of Vaccines; Dipping Below Herd Immunity | CommonHealth
 
Old 05-28-2015, 08:49 AM
 
12,447 posts, read 14,582,889 times
Reputation: 14171
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

The bottom line is that very few Americans have true religious objections to vaccination. Many who claim "religious" exemptions just wish to hide in the herd and let other families take the (tiny) risk associated with vaccination. Anti-vax websites offer instructions on how to lie to get religious exemptions.
What risk????You've said so yourself, repeatedly, that the risk is EXTREMELY rare.
So why does it bother you, and why would you care.
An unvaccinated child would pose no risk to families who do.
Have you no faith in the wonderful vaccines you inject?
Do you not feel safe as one of the herd that do?
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