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Old 06-01-2015, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,640,427 times
Reputation: 3814

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
In case you are unaware, other countries do vaccinate, including Mexico and the countries in Central America. Some have higher vaccination rates than the US. Yes, any "illegal" I encounter is likely to have been vaccinated.

From the previous link:

"In response, several groups filed suit against New York State, claiming that the mandate deprived them of liberty without due process and violated their right to free exercise of religion, rights guaranteed by the Fourteenth and First Amendments. In the end, unanticipated vaccine shortages in October 2009 caused Governor David Paterson to halt the mandate, temporarily relieving health care workers of the influenza vaccination requirement. New York State plans to reinstate the mandate for the 2010 to 2011 influenza season."

But don't let the facts get in the way of your snark.

Vaccine mandates do not violate freedom of religion.
Who said freedom of religion? You must think you personally know who you are speaking to or something?

I mean if you are going to quote me, you should really try to focus on what I say. The NYSNA was fighting the non-contractual mandate. Nurses have clearly written in their contracts what is required of them, so does any other healthcare worker upon getting hired right down to clericals and cleaning people. This was unprecedented, and unneeded.

Nurses have contacted ADVANCE claiming the new rule is a violation of their civil rights as U.S. citizens, since the state expects those who don't comply to be staffed only in areas where they wouldn't pose a health risk to patients should they contract the flu and be disciplined in a manner similar to someone who's unwilling to follow protocol - which some are led to believe means a fast track to termination.

"I am a registered nurse who is being told [by my facility, via letter] that I will be fired if I do not get a flu vaccine," said Marie-Dominique Toussaint, RN, a New York hospital nurse. "I have never gotten the flu. I have never taken a flu vaccine. I am relatively healthy and choose not to be vaccinated knowing I may or may not get the flu someday. It's a 'risk' I take and it's mine to take."


Our southern border is crossed by people from all over the world - not just people from Mexico.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is from an article on the topic dated Aug 2014 -

• 1,443 people from China were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border so far this year, with an additional 1,803 people either turning themselves in to U.S. authorities at official ports of entry, or being caught attempting to illegally enter at the ports of entry.


• Twenty-eight individuals from Pakistan were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border this year, with another 211 individuals either turning themselves in or being caught at official ports of entry.


• Thirteen Egyptians were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border this year, with another 168 either turning themselves in or being caught at official ports of entry.


• Four individuals from Yemen were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border in 2014, with another 34 individuals either turning themselves in or being caught attempting to illegally enter at the ports of entry.


• Four individuals from Somalia were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border in 2014. Another 290 either turned themselves in or were apprehended at official ports of entry.


Since it is not possible to know how many people crossing our border illegally escape detection, the above figures suggest that many more people from across the globe have crossed our southern border.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's too bad that you didnt watch those preceeding though. Maybe you can explain why substances like mercury and formaldhyde are/were in the vaccine? I wouldnt think that is very healthy for anyone - compromised or not.

Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 06-01-2015 at 05:52 PM..

 
Old 06-01-2015, 05:24 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,035 posts, read 102,723,474 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
How many children under 12 months exactly were there? In fact, a break-down of the total number of sick people by age and reason for vaccine exception should prove instructive. In the case of the California School System especially instructive. If Social Engineering does not fit the definition of what is being attempted there I don't know what the term means. Healthy, vaccinated children should have no fear of unvaccinated children and immunocompromised or otherwise unvaccinatable children should either take their chances, which are quite good. Or they should not be in a public school. Period. End of Story!
Here's the Colorado flu report from this past season (preliminary).
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sit...a-Report_1.pdf
It shows the hospitalizations by age group.
6 pediatric deaths.

Generally at least 90% of peds deaths are in the unvaccinated.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,458 posts, read 28,339,041 times
Reputation: 29067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Can you agree that if the access to medical intervention to support the sick was widely available in the Third World that there would be fewer, perhaps no deaths from an illness like measles? I include America in that Third World designation. And the "emotional blackmail" is only needed on American soil. In the Third World the U.S. uses much more effective economic sanctions and treaties, etc. to achieve our commercial aims abroad
Sure, better medical care would help. Preventing the disease in the first place means you never have to provide heroic measures at all. Besides that, it's cheaper.

The majority of American parents vaccinate their children because they believe the experts and their child's doctor. No "emotional blackmail" needed. In fact, the "stories" of unsubstantiated harm repeated on website after anti-vax website are clear attemots at "emotional blackmail".

Quote:
Measles does not crash a bodies organs like Ebola does. Neither does the Flu. If as many Ebola patients have been saved as have been saved the pulling people through Measles should be child's play. My parents pulled my brother and I through it and no hospital was necessary.
Measles can kill. Flu can kill. Measles can affect just about every organ system in the body.

Beyond Rash And Fever: How Measles Can Kill : Goats and Soda : NPR

Flu? Investigation of fatal cases:

Pathology and virology findings in cases of fatal influenza A H1N1 virus infection in 2009-2010. - PubMed - NCBI

"Although the number of cases in this study is small, the findings reinforce the notion that changes in extrapulmonary organs are attributable to multiorgan dysfunction syndrome rather than a viral cytopathic effect, and that there is no transplacental transmission of virus."

Quote:
Show me a syringe ready product. My argument remains untrashed until that happy day arrives. There have been Flu Vaccine shortages in recent years.
Ebola Vaccine, Drug Trials to Begin in West Africa - US News

In recent years anyone who wanted flu vaccine could get it, even if there were shortages in particular communities. You might have to hunt around a bit. I suspect that if there were surpluses of the vaccine you would moan that that was wasteful.

Quote:
I didn't say everyone with HIV is promiscuous, I said that no one will market a vaccine for HIV because of the fear (by the usual suspects) that it will promote promiscuity. That's why birth control pills continue to be regulated like Oxycontin. It's why Gardasil was beaten back into the bushes of breakthrough research. If it at all appears like a prouduct makes sex safer it will be hounded out of sight before the public can get wind of it.
What strange things to say. Really weird.

Birth control pills are not regulated like narcotics.

If there were no plans to market an HIV vaccine no one would be working on one.

Gardasil is alive and well, now available in a vaccine that protects against nine strains, instead of four. It has also been shown that vaccinating against HPV does not promote promiscuity.

Quote:
All the people I know taking high blood pressure medication still have high blood pressure. All the diabetics I know on insulin are still going blind, losing feet, kidneys... and last but not least... painkillers... I laugh... anything that actually works is kept at Fort Knox and most of that stuff is deadly in even the slightest overdose. No, Suzy, I know you set a really low bar for the expectations of humanity with respect to what the Allied Health Industries can do for us but I don't. I expect MUCH more than we've gotten especially as so much of it is nigh unaffordable by the average individual.
There is a poster here who has a wife who has been treated for type 1 diabetes for over 50 years. Perhaps he will pop in and join the discussion. Anyone with serious complications from diabetes is very often noncompliant with treatment. That is not medicine's fault.

Type 1 Diabetes Study | Joslin Diabetes Center

Hypertension? Meds do not cure it, but they reduce the risk of kidney damage, stroke, and heart attack. Effective meds are cheap. Publix even has some that are free.

Pain medication? Have you ever had surgery? I have. Have you ever broken a bone? I have. Appreciated the pain meds after both. Used them until the pain got better and that was it.

Would you deny pain medication to someone with extensive burns?
 
Old 06-01-2015, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,640,427 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Here's the Colorado flu report from this past season (preliminary).
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sit...a-Report_1.pdf
It shows the hospitalizations by age group.
6 pediatric deaths.

Generally at least 90% of peds deaths are in the unvaccinated.
That really concerns me too - the reference for Influenza-like illness.

If they are NOT specifically testing the blood for the flu, that's just more ambiguity. I saw somewhere where they were including things like bronchitis under this heading. Bronchitis is not caused by a virus, and is not communicable. There is no vaccine that can prevent it.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,458 posts, read 28,339,041 times
Reputation: 29067
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
So does it give people a boost or not? Science says it does. It's not irrelevant.
It's not relevant to a discussion of varicella vacccine because giving children varicella vaccine has not caused an increase in shingles in adults. There was concern that vaccinating kids might prevent the "boost" and increase the risk of shingles. Experience has shown that it does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Not much longer. Life expectancy plateaued for most socio-economic groups a while back and it is going retr0grade for at least one socio-economic group in the U.S.
And the culprit appears to be lifestyle related, not due to any deficit in medical care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
How many children under 12 months exactly were there? In fact, a break-down of the total number of sick people by age and reason for vaccine exception should prove instructive. In the case of the California School System especially instructive. If Social Engineering does not fit the definition of what is being attempted there I don't know what the term means. Healthy, vaccinated children should have no fear of unvaccinated children and immunocompromised or otherwise unvaccinatable children should either take their chances, which are quite good. Or they should not be in a public school. Period. End of Story!
CDC details US measles outbreaks, vaccination gaps | CIDRAP

"The vast majority of patients (131) were either unvaccinated or didn't know their vaccination status, the MMWR report said. Of the 68 Americans in the unvaccinated group, 29 cited philosophical or religious objections, 27 couldn't be vaccinated because they were too young or had a medical contraindication, and 12 weren't vaccinated for other reasons."

Th ones who should not be in school are the healthy kids who can be vaccinated with near zero risk to themselves but are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
Who said freedom of religion? You must think you personally know who you are speaking to or something?
Perhaps you did not read your own link. The New York mandate was challenged for alleged freedom of religion reasons.

Quote:
I mean if you are going to quote me, you should really try to focus on what I say. The NYSNA was fighting the non-contractual mandate. Nurses have clearly written in their contracts what is required of them, so does any other healthcare worker upon getting hired right down to clericals and cleaning people. This was unprecedented, and unneeded.

Nurses have contacted ADVANCE claiming the new rule is a violation of their civil rights as U.S. citizens, since the state expects those who don't comply to be staffed only in areas where they wouldn't pose a health risk to patients should they contract the flu and be disciplined in a manner similar to someone who's unwilling to follow protocol - which some are led to believe means a fast track to termination.

"I am a registered nurse who is being told [by my facility, via letter] that I will be fired if I do not get a flu vaccine," said Marie-Dominique Toussaint, RN, a New York hospital nurse. "I have never gotten the flu. I have never taken a flu vaccine. I am relatively healthy and choose not to be vaccinated knowing I may or may not get the flu someday. It's a 'risk' I take and it's mine to take."
Apart from the fact that I would consider any nurse who refused flu vaccine for other than medical reasons to be poorly educated, I would not want to be in the hospital during flu season and be unnecessarily exposed to flu from an unvaccinated healthcare worker. Anyone who walks in my room wearing a mask because she chose not to take the vaccine will be asked to leave.

It may be the nurse's right not to take the vaccine. It just shows she's ignorant. It's not her right to refuse to do what she can to protect her patients and coworkers. She should be terminated.

Quote:
Our southern border is crossed by people from all over the world - not just people from Mexico.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is from an article on the topic dated Aug 2014 -

• 1,443 people from China were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border so far this year, with an additional 1,803 people either turning themselves in to U.S. authorities at official ports of entry, or being caught attempting to illegally enter at the ports of entry.


• Twenty-eight individuals from Pakistan were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border this year, with another 211 individuals either turning themselves in or being caught at official ports of entry.


• Thirteen Egyptians were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border this year, with another 168 either turning themselves in or being caught at official ports of entry.


• Four individuals from Yemen were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border in 2014, with another 34 individuals either turning themselves in or being caught attempting to illegally enter at the ports of entry.


• Four individuals from Somalia were apprehended while crossing the U.S. border in 2014. Another 290 either turned themselves in or were apprehended at official ports of entry.


Since it is not possible to know how many people crossing our border illegally escape detection, the above figures suggest that many more people from across the globe have crossed our southern border.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am far more likely to come in contact with an unvaccinated American than an unvaccinated illegal alien.

Keep trying. It's fun to see you stretching so far.

Map: 113 countries have higher measles immunization rates than the U.S. for 1-year-olds - The Washington Post

Quote:
It's too bad that you didnt watch those preceeding though. Maybe you can explain why substances like mercury and formaldhyde are/were in them? I wouldnt think that is very healthy for anyone - compromised or not.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.


The human body makes formaldehyde in higher quantities than are found in vaccines. There are also many environmental exposures, including air, food, and water. The amounts in vaccines are insignificant compared to that.

Harpocrates Speaks: Demystifying Vaccine Ingredients - Formaldehyde

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
That really concerns me too - the reference for Influenza-like illness.

If they are NOT specifically testing the blood for the flu, that's just more ambiguity. I saw somewhere where they were including things like bronchitis under this heading. Bronchitis is not caused by a virus, and is not communicable. There is no vaccine that can prevent it.
Yes, the incidence of influenza is estimated. However, the estimates are based on laboratory confirmed cases.

Acute bronchitis can be caused by either bacteria or viruses, and it is contagious.

http://www.medicinenet.com/bronchitis_acute/article.htm
 
Old 06-01-2015, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,640,427 times
Reputation: 3814
Well, then we have redefined bronchitis since 2011. I guess parents will have to keep their coughing children who suffer from seasonal bronchitis (based on allergic reactions to mold mildew fungus pollen, etc) home from school now, and older folks need to stay home from work. They might infect somebody.

Mine comes out when trees are budding. Watch out world! The trees are fighting back!

I dont eat organic so I can put any amount of chemicals into my body. Likewise, I wear washable clothing only. I only use organic deodorants.

Is there a market out there offering organic vaccines? Thanks.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,640,427 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
It's not relevant to a discussion of varicella vacccine because giving children varicella vaccine has not caused an increase in shingles in adults. There was concern that vaccinating kids might prevent the "boost" and increase the risk of shingles. Experience has shown that it does not.



And the culprit appears to be lifestyle related, not due to any deficit in medical care.



CDC details US measles outbreaks, vaccination gaps | CIDRAP

"The vast majority of patients (131) were either unvaccinated or didn't know their vaccination status, the MMWR report said. Of the 68 Americans in the unvaccinated group, 29 cited philosophical or religious objections, 27 couldn't be vaccinated because they were too young or had a medical contraindication, and 12 weren't vaccinated for other reasons."

Th ones who should not be in school are the healthy kids who can be vaccinated with near zero risk to themselves but are not.



Perhaps you did not read your own link. The New York mandate was challenged for alleged freedom of religion reasons.



Apart from the fact that I would consider any nurse who refused flu vaccine for other than medical reasons to be poorly educated, I would not want to be in the hospital during flu season and be unnecessarily exposed to flu from an unvaccinated healthcare worker. Anyone who walks in my room wearing a mask because she chose not to take the vaccine will be asked to leave.

It may be the nurse's right not to take the vaccine. It just shows she's ignorant. It's not her right to refuse to do what she can to protect her patients and coworkers. She should be terminated.



I am far more likely to come in contact with an unvaccinated American than an unvaccinated illegal alien.

Keep trying. It's fun to see you stretching so far.

Map: 113 countries have higher measles immunization rates than the U.S. for 1-year-olds - The Washington Post



There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.
There is no mercury in current childhood vaccines.


The human body makes formaldehyde in higher quantities than are found in vaccines. There are also many environmental exposures, including air, food, and water. The amounts in vaccines are insignificant compared to that.

Harpocrates Speaks: Demystifying Vaccine Ingredients - Formaldehyde



Yes, the incidence of influenza is estimated. However, the estimates are based on laboratory confirmed cases.

Acute bronchitis can be caused by either bacteria or viruses, and it is contagious.

Acute Bronchitis: Get the Facts on Symptoms and Remedies
Im not stretching - but you keep trying, its fun to watch you squirm, lol.

What was the point of the mercury then? It was there is 2009 - why? You need mercury and formaldehyde to kill the flu for a vaccine?

BTW, the US was ranked 37th in the world for healthcare too. Vaccines are a part of healthcare.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,640,427 times
Reputation: 3814
Nevermind - I found it myself.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/pati...-bw-office.pdf

Sulphur dioxide is a natural toxic gas found in the environment too. Which has nothing to do with vaccines, but I have to thank you SuzyQ. You are helping to make me more and more aware of how much we use toxic substances as preservatives.

http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/heal...uits-3921.html

Ive been on job sites out west with clearly posted skull and bones warnings regarding natural sulphur dioxide in the environment.

I worked for a radiologist for 10 years that I held in high regard professionally, as well as his demeanor as a human being. He once said something to me regarding radiation exposure that I will never forget.

Its true we know how much radiation is harmful. Its not true that we know how little.

Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 06-01-2015 at 08:07 PM..
 
Old 06-01-2015, 08:30 PM
 
9,600 posts, read 5,818,559 times
Reputation: 9708
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
It's not relevant to a discussion of varicella vacccine because giving children varicella vaccine has not caused an increase in shingles in adults. There was concern that vaccinating kids might prevent the "boost" and increase the risk of shingles. Experience has shown that it does not.
I've seen how the shingles rate is calculated and it could be a theme for a course on how to manipulate with statistics.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 08:55 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,035 posts, read 102,723,474 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
That really concerns me too - the reference for Influenza-like illness.

If they are NOT specifically testing the blood for the flu, that's just more ambiguity. I saw somewhere where they were including things like bronchitis under this heading. Bronchitis is not caused by a virus, and is not communicable. There is no vaccine that can prevent it.
Many people go to the dr. with "influenza-like illness" and get tested for the flu. Some have it, some don't. Likewise, a lot of people bring their kids in for "strep throat" and the kids turn out to have the flu. Kaiser-Permanente keeps stats on ILI for the CO dept. of health.
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